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Post by shagnasty on Jun 4, 2007 6:21:45 GMT -6
i bet it was those three things sticking up in the air, lol!
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Post by trappnman on Jun 4, 2007 6:30:45 GMT -6
of course the structure was the reason the set was made, and of course its an attractant and its been there for over 2 years.
the point I was trying to make- was no circling, no stopping, no standing and shuffling the feet-
just straight in aimed not at the structure, but the set 15-20 feet from the structure
and as I said- I'd LIKE to think it was the lure.
anyone else actually willing to TRY to answer Jefferys question?
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Post by mikespring on Jun 4, 2007 7:07:51 GMT -6
I don't see any reason to go further with trying to answer Jeffreys question...you showed him how to set without having to pull any farther than a few yards...and thats what its all about. If I had to pull them any great distance I would use a large bait pile or carcass pile..does not matter if their hungry or not they will investigate it and you can pick them up with scent stations.
How far will they go out of their way..to many variables...depends on the individual.
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Post by dogpaw on Jun 4, 2007 7:08:31 GMT -6
If you made the set the day before the snow I guess my line of think,n needs re think,n
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Post by bobwendt on Jun 4, 2007 7:42:05 GMT -6
went to circle the weeds. bet your set was DOWNWIND from the weeds and he went that direcrtion first. they get close enough and sure they can smell against the wind, or no wind. everything worked like it was suppose to. 1-2-3 100%!!! so what`s the big deal ore question or mystery? plus, who cares, there he sits! you explained your own scenario, you set on the attraction, the 3 things sticking up and a tiny weed island. only thing I`d have done different is set right on the weeds, unless their was an entanglement issue.
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Post by trappnman on Jun 4, 2007 14:05:32 GMT -6
a set was on the other side of the structure also.
no mystery- trying to answer an oft talked about quesiton-
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Post by Freak( Jim V.) on Jun 4, 2007 16:50:23 GMT -6
Further than you think. I had my ideas on the pulling property of lures smashed by PSB and how far he regularly pulls reds.
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Post by dj88ryr on Jun 4, 2007 17:01:13 GMT -6
Without the story, and knowing that you made the set, my first thought was, .."He is going to talk about visuals again".....
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Post by trappnman on Jun 5, 2007 6:11:35 GMT -6
the tracks are plain to see- they came st out of the woods to the set. Now, I have no doubt the structure was what started him to the set- but since the tracks are well to the side of the structure, and absolute no circling, no changing of direction, and he went to a a buried in snow flat set- at some point, the lure was a factor.
there is no circling, no hesitaiton, no standing in one spot- nothing but pure walking tracks st to the set.
I have no idea how far the lure was a factor- but its undeniable that it was, and not from circling- from at least "some" distance.
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Post by bobwendt on Jun 5, 2007 6:57:01 GMT -6
was the set downwind of the structure? be honest now. if so he merely went in a beeline down wind to sniff the structure FROM DOWNWIND and by accident or luck got close enough he smelled your set and got caught . no mystery. just find more structure in the big wide open and set downside, but get closer in so your lure does a better job for you.
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Post by trappnman on Jun 5, 2007 7:17:56 GMT -6
Im sure that was it- pure luck or accident.
I take 4-5 coyotes every year from this set location. and have been doing it for many year,s long before the structure. Under the snow, its a meeting place of 3 field lines. the weeds at that structure, are only there now. the structure by the way is a bench- the farm owner likes to sit there and look at things- lots of deer, turkey. he tipped it over for winter
Highly unlike that the set was downwind from the structure- normal wind here would be coming st across left to right.
but for sure, the coyote was.
if the structure is the center of the clock- the angle of tracks come in from 5 oclock direct to 9 oclock.
Guess Im really perplexed as to why there should be a big discussion on IF a canine smelled lure.
Guess Im the only one that uses lure to attract.
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Post by Zagman on Jun 5, 2007 8:28:10 GMT -6
Steve, understand, that GENERALLY you say visuals are one the most underated, and important part of coyote trapping.... Coupled with the fact that you GENERALLY say you dont set with the wind....... None of us were there, you were......so AGAIN, like BOB on the 98%, I beleive you.... But this scenario COULD play out as a perfect example of supporting your thoughts on VISUALS vs. the WIND and LURE. Still, us being us, HAD you posted that the visual brought that coyote out to the middle of the field, we'd have told you it was the LURE and WIND! Right?!?! Zagman
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Post by trappnman on Jun 5, 2007 8:44:07 GMT -6
Still, us being us, HAD you posted that the visual brought that coyote out to the middle of the field, we'd have told you it was the LURE and WIND! Right?!?!
LOL- probably.
Zags- without a doubt, the structure played a role- BUT, I set up the same location for many years without the structure. The structure of the farmers bench that is.
the structure of the fields all meeting, with the field road curving to the left around the structure, has always been there.
I'm not saying the lure brought him all that ways- In fact, I rather doubt that it did. Thats why I said "I'd LIKE to believe it was the lure...'
but- looking at the tracks- its also obvious that he went direct to the set without looking at or heading to the structure once he got "close". And sure, the wind was a factor- how could it not be? Scent can only travel on air.
lets be clear on my thoughts concerning wind.
Its not that I don't believe wind is a factor- what I said was, placing 2 sets so that EACH wind direction is covered by one of the sets- lets me set location rather than wind.
Once those sets are in place- I know that no matter what the direction of the wind is, a coyote will be exposed to the lure.
And I also believe, that visuals have no wind limitations- so that right, left, up or down the coyote still sees the visual.
But once the set is "seen", of course I expect the lure scent to come into play. And that can only happen on air currents.
Bottom line, to put my wind comment in perspective- what I originally said, was that I don't waste time figuring out the wind direction, or choosing locations based on the wind direction. Set up travel routes, field edges, etc- that provide directional travel- and you don't have to worry about the wind.
And I don't.
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Post by bobwendt on Jun 5, 2007 9:54:10 GMT -6
coyotes don`t beeline right into structure ( rockpile, dozed fence trash, weed pile aroun bench, whatever), they beeline down wind to wiff it first ,prior to hunting it, wiff and listen both. if a set is on the downwind side, even with a real odor or maybe no odor other than a holes odor ( yes a hole and underground dirt smells different than no hole top dirt), they`ll hit the set first. or maybe be it was the lure, but likely the structure firtst and the lure second.
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Post by Jeffrey on Jun 5, 2007 12:45:55 GMT -6
Trappnman, here's an interesting thought, I had a set on an old logging road, it was a flat set on a clump of weeds in the middle of the road. Now, the only time that I caught any thing on this set was when it rained. Was it that the critters could smell the lure real fine when the weather was good and they didn't have to get to close for a good smell, and when it rained they had to get closer for a sniff and wham? Just a thought!
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Post by bobwendt on Jun 5, 2007 14:36:20 GMT -6
jeffrey, here in indiana and kansas and wyoming, in the summer, the coyotes only refreshen their poop and pee markers right after a big rain, or front. pending how often the fronts come thru, that could be anything from every few days to once a month or less. they willl even do it during the rain. between rains nary a track or flip or movement. it`s a waiting game them . of course now I`ve learned to howl an area and get closer on them , if I can, but it`s not always possible , so back to the waiting game.I`m guessing early fall trapping is similar and if you are settingway off their home turf, would produce mostly aged coyotes and mostly on nights of rain. if on the home turf or later during migration, I bet the catch is not front or rain related. were these early fall sets?
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Post by Jeffrey on Jun 5, 2007 18:57:22 GMT -6
Yes they were, sort of, I noted the fall before that every time it snowed the fox would travel this section of road. I set it last fall and on the first rain I caught a nice male bobcat, then probably three weeks later I caught a nice male fox on a rainy day. This road runs along a large hill for about 500 yds usually on the first half the fox run and on the second half the yotes, why I don't know. If you go there when there is snow, you'll see where the yotes come down the mountain and go to the right and the fox use the left side of the mountain.
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Post by bobwendt on Jun 5, 2007 19:02:32 GMT -6
lol, rightys and leftys.
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Post by Jeffrey on Jun 6, 2007 8:34:21 GMT -6
Actually Bob there's more human activity at the begining of the road than at the coyote end so that probably explains most of it. It just sounds funny hearing all these coyote stories, because around here during deer season it's very, very hard to catch coyotes and even after they are still hard. We have an early two week season for fox and coyote during the last two weeks of October and other than that yotes are hard to come by.
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Post by shagnasty on Jun 7, 2007 5:41:35 GMT -6
do you think they are hard to catch because they are busted up and spooked by all the people in the woods?
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