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Post by mostinterestingmanintheworld on May 30, 2007 8:25:03 GMT -6
I've caught a lot of coyotes in tight covered cat sets, unburied traps and even in caves.
I would have no problem setting in high cover if I had a reason to but given my druthers I'd set in the open.
I think a coyote is an easier animal to trap than a cat in many ways, he's more predictable.
When I was trapping them I used 3 sets, dirthole, flat, and buried bait. Dirthole and flat were 95% of what I used. Baits were if I caught a badger or skunk I'd kick them back in the hole and set accordingly.
One of my favorite flat sets used no lure or a very diluted lure.
Joel
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Post by bobwendt on May 30, 2007 8:55:05 GMT -6
joel, I think coyotes are easier too. cats just don`t care if they get caught or not , while poor old mr. coyote jumps up and down and says ,like charlie the tuna, "take me, take me" . now who can resist a plea like that? and they are like beavers, if they build a dam or cut trees it`s right under the bridge where every soul traveling the road KNOWS there are beavers there. the danged old coyotye craps and tracks all over and even howls "I`m here, I`m here". lol, and thinks everyone will ignore all the noise and poop.
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Post by SgtWal on May 30, 2007 18:51:15 GMT -6
The "box" is already alot bigger than it used to be. I remember when fox trappers urged you to carry a roll of canvas to walk on when you made a set. When mink trappers would wade to every set and abandon the set if they accidently touched the bank or dripped sweat on the bank. Almost any location that can be set with a snare can be blind set with a foothold. To me a major step for most trappers outside the box, would be to stop betting on lure and bait and concentrate on location and making sure there are animals there to catch. Trapping a cat means setting where the cats are, yet many trappers don't apply this to trapping canines. They set the location and wait for that "next yote" to travel the field. The best set in the world won't catch anything if there isn't something there to catch. That's why the set over the fence catches 3 while the one on your side lays there and rusts. Canines have lost the mystique they used to have, they ain'y hard to catch if you set where they are going to be anyway. We need to scout better and stop wasting time on "blind sets" made because the site looks like the one in the video.
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Post by trappnman on May 30, 2007 19:25:41 GMT -6
LOL- anyone that says they haven't had coyote problems is either lying or hasn't trapped many coyotes.
and I don't care who you are.
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Post by mikespring on May 30, 2007 19:38:34 GMT -6
Na Steve...they just have somthing to sell...its called BS.
I`m from NY
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Post by bobwendt on May 31, 2007 7:02:46 GMT -6
and there is a definit difference between someone that does it all the time and years of experience and a newby or week end warrior. when larry bird makes that falling away while being knocked over shot and it gets nothing but net, it issn`t luck. he`d practices that shot for years. and fwiw, selling anything or not, coyotes are easy. I have no troubles, or so rarely as to not meritr mention. but some guys I guess are expert pros and still have troubles. uh huh. just animals, stupid animals. they can`t read, can`t send a rocket to the moon. heck, they can`t even drive.
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Post by trappnman on May 31, 2007 7:13:39 GMT -6
Bob- Larry bird best year was under 60% success.
coyotes are "easy" but I don't believe anyone that tells me he never gets any digging, never gets any problems, in short, someone that gets 100% of the coyotes aware of their sets.
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Post by bobwendt on May 31, 2007 8:14:21 GMT -6
99% tman, maybe 98% . I dunno. like figuring how many rats can evade 110`s in there den. I`m sure there are some.
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Post by trappnman on May 31, 2007 8:55:47 GMT -6
Bob- I'd truly like to go snow trapping with you.
and I mean this as no insult- I truly would.
I trap bare ground, and at times I think I got it dicked. Sets are connecting regular, its either a coyote or no coyote sign.
and then I trap in snow and its "oh my....."
what I now can see.... I have no doubt happens on bare ground as well.
so I'd really like to just ride with you on a line, and see for myself, that you are taking every coyote that is aware of your set.
If you can do this, you are, in my opinion the greatest coyote trapper ever, of all time.
If this is truly obtainable, then for all my coyote successes- and I'd not be afraid to run a line with anyone and hold up my end- I'm just a babe i in the woods.
If this comes off as being a smartass, its really not. Its hard to put into words exactly what I'm trying to say.
but it sums up to this- I think I'm a pretty good coyote trapper. not the best by a long shot, but not the worst by far.
now I'm not talking constant digging problems, or work arounds- I don't get all that many and probably on a par with you or anyone else (remember the 1 in 17)..
but to get every coyote walking by to work your set...
like I'll get every rat coming by to work my rat sets-
by God- hats off- you are good.
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Post by bobwendt on May 31, 2007 9:47:48 GMT -6
I never thought of it that way. it`s just my business, has been for a long trime. if I can`t get MOST of them, then I need to step back to hobby level , or get in another business. I like snow. I see a track heading down the trail and I can`t wait to get there, as sure enough, there he sits. often a single as one set is untouched and no new tracks around him, so it`s not like they are falling over each other. I bet you get more ( higher% ) than you are giving yourself credit for. sure some ignore me or whatever( wind wrong direction, mind on love, whatever), but not many. and a miss or visit, love `em as i know he was just luck-eee and next time thru he is mine. froze trap , too deep a snow, whatever reasons a guy misses some now and again. I remember a guy I shared a barn with in wyoming once. he`d been to montana and everywhere else for instruction. thought he was hot chit. he wouldn`t believe it was easy and to just do it. he had to outsmart himself daily trying to learn the secret. we met back at about the same time from both running about 100 sets, same ground. he had 2 or 3 , I can`t remember. he comes over and I ask how`d you do? he says and then says ,I suppose you got 20? I said nope, 37. think I`m windy? ask the guy, old mike mcniece. I remember the only coyote, old 5-6 year old mangy male, that ever chewed a 1/8th snare in half and got away. I trapped him back by the foot in a day or two. he pissed me off. showed him to a rider, snare chewed in two still on him, on a stack of a bunch more dead ones that pissed me off. knew I`d catch him back, like I said, it`s my business, I better be able to ,or change businesses. that guy?, jeff, on here, ask him. and that cat pulled out in front of us, no worries, she looked a female, small head. she`ll raise me a litter and I`ll catch them all and her too again. piece of cake. no worries mate. best coyote trapper? nope, no such thing, just one of many that knows the BUSINESS of catching coyotes. 1-2-3 job done
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Post by SteveCraig on May 31, 2007 17:38:18 GMT -6
"by God- hats off- you are good."
He is pretty darned good! He might not get that sucker that walks by the first time, but he still gets him! We got a digger in Kansas. She dug out a trap first night, and then again the second night, but after digging out the trap, we trailed her over to trap set just a few yards away, and there she sits! No other tracks around but her. As far as i know she was the last one in that area. Now cats..........thats another story. We both missed alot of cats that year! hehehe
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Post by bobwendt on May 31, 2007 18:58:51 GMT -6
coyotes are easy compared to cats. and a cat is dumb. probably their dumbness is the only reason they aren`t extinct .
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Post by mostinterestingmanintheworld on Jun 1, 2007 10:31:00 GMT -6
Well said!!
That and the country they inhabit.
Joel
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Post by k9 on Jun 2, 2007 7:50:56 GMT -6
"on a stack of a bunch more dead ones that pissed me off."
Note to self....don't piss Bob off. ;D
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Post by mikespring on Jun 2, 2007 16:58:13 GMT -6
"and there is a definite difference between someone that does it all the time and years of experience and a newby or week end warrior." Not me bob...been at it for over 25 years... and as far as NY canine #s go I no of no one with more #s Than yours truly. I`m sure they are out there...I just don`t no them. ( See Bob I can chest pound too...but prefer not to).
Really surprised with your claims of taking 98% of the coyotes that visit your sets that your still interested in trapping them. Correct me if I`m wrong but I believe you stated you left the field of medicine due to the lack of challange...I would think with a 98% kill ratio there would`NT be much challenge left in it for ya.
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Post by bobwendt on Jun 2, 2007 17:34:56 GMT -6
there isn`t, that`s why I make it harder, insisting on getting them alive in perfect condition. lol, and the 100 dollar bills. it`s a whole new ball game that way. anyone can snare or trap or shoot them dead. the thousands upon thousands of hides at nafa is proof they are easy for most folks after a brief learning curve. but most are small numbers put togather by lots of guys rather than big numbers by a few guys. as far as the 98%, heck I`ve no idea what the real exact % is, but it`s most all of them and probably could be almost all of even the few misses if it paid good enough. I know I wouldn`t want to be following me trapping. nor is it worth my time to follow most any guy that knows his stuff. not enough left to pay shoe leather. at least not for a while , till time passes and more migrate in. a hide trapper would starve in most sheep areras of the west where they are pursued and worked hard year `round. there are large areas near extinct, maybe 2-3coyotes/100,000 acres, and them inaccessible terrain or they would be dead too. so lots of guys can do the 98% or whatever the number is. it`s no big deal and no chest pounding, just what is.
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Post by trappnman on Jun 2, 2007 17:56:56 GMT -6
I know I for one, am guilty of trapping coyotes that aren't there.
I made a comment once that ADC trapping of coyotes was easy here. I've not trapped 100s of ADC coyotes, but enough ot form an opinion. And thats that they have all been easy coyotes. I always get a pattern "he comes across that ridge and comes in the bottom fields by that corner", a proven feed, daily source (usually lambs or afterbirth on cows) and I find that I connect in either the first night or the second.
It would be interesting to know what the true % of awareness to catch is
We have all had the occasion where a coyote walks right by a set (snow tracks), within inches, never breaks stride, and then he goes 50 feet to an identical set and there he is.
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Post by SgtWal on Jun 2, 2007 17:59:33 GMT -6
Those trappers who trap for the "challenge" of catching a critter still haven't mastered the craft. Unless you are inventing problems for yourself to overcome, you should reach a point where the challenge fades and it starts to look like work just set trap, pickup critter. Does a Doctor feel like an operation is a challenge? Would you want one who looked at your treatment that way? Or would you want one that is an old hand around the table? Trapping is no different than any other skill, learn the critter, learn the basics, practice to get confidence, and take 'em to the bank.
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Post by bobwendt on Jun 2, 2007 18:57:33 GMT -6
yes!
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Post by mikespring on Jun 2, 2007 19:12:27 GMT -6
So...all doctors have the same skill level as do trappers as do all canines have the same iq level...sounds good coming off a key board, not so in the real world.
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