When good locations go bad

[17kiss]

Past 2 or 3 seasons have been seeing this. Have locations with 2 traps that usually produce 10 -15 fox . lately , lucky to get 1-5 fox same location. No major changes in usage by landowner . Other locations that have been consistant for 5-10 year after year are now 1- 5. I am talking not a single double this year. Some seem to have no fox on at all . Usually run about 7 -10 days full time. Pull , then go back in January. Went from 80 -100 in 10 days to 60 something , then 40 something , this year 20 something. what the heck is going on? I know the coyotes are playing some part in this , just not sure how big an impact they are having. Incidentally my coyote catch has been getting better every year. Can this be the sole cause of this? Also grey catch is going up compared to trditional levels.

[Steve Gappa]

Two different things come into play here- general overalll drop in fox and specific drop in fox at 1 location.

If a general drop- then it has to be and overall population drop- and that can be from a couple of things- 1) disease 2) bad whelping season- either from disease, or weather 3) major widespread habit changes or 4) increase mortality.

Just for a "point to ponder"- I cannot believe how much rain and flooding your area had- the "eastern midwest" for lack of a better term (or how about the Big 10 states ). When I came out in mid June- all away across we saw nothing but standing water and no crops. And according to what we have seen on the weather channel- itsbeen raining ever since!

So with both the cold, constant rain and the lack of typical crop cover inthe crucial times- the survival rate of the pups might have been way, way down.

Normally- you should be taking 60-70 young of the year. Did you find that a disportionate amount of your fox were adults?

Disease could also cause this- as mange, parvo- the 2 biggest killers- are extra hard on pups- esp stressed pups.

You say no widespread habitat changes- so you can rule that out.

The only other thing would be increased preditation- and I think that the coyotes are a good part of that. But in a year like this with late crop growth, the pups would be vulnerable to a lot of other predators.
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Now the other point- specific hotspots going bad. Some are obvious- a new house goes up, fallow fields are plowed up, new roads- whatever. A lot of things can change specific areas from one year to the next. And with coyotes- I do believe that things miles away that we are unaware of cause travel changes.

But others just baffle me. One spot in particular. It is a field road- but gravel going up the hill behind the farm to hay and crops on top. This field road used to be the county road, and it goes intermittently for miles. At one end of the fields about 1/4 mile away is a quarry and ravines are onythe other sides. Down one hill leads to the creek many of you have seen as my "20 below" creek.

I have trapped this 5 years.

1) 7 coyotes including a triple, no fox
2) no coyotes, 2 fox
3) 3 coyotes, 3 fox
4) 10 coyotes, 5 fox
5) no coyotes, 1 fox

I trapped gophers all summer on same land each year- and saw coyotes and sign all summers. Between season #4 and this year- I trapped and released several coyotes on the same location- including 2 with pups.

[17kiss]

We did have mange pretty bad for about 5 years. Seems to be much better now. Only caught pups at one location this year. With the lack of cover , why then are the coyotes on a definite upwards trend? Seemed to see more pups this year than usual. I think the king has arrived and the fox has to bow down and make room. Plus the numbers were already lowered due to mange. Now the coyotes seem to have a high percentage of mange. Scratching my head, hoping my fox #s come back , But seriously doubting they ever will. That is why I am learning as much as possible about the coyote , cause I do believe I am only catching the tip of the iceberg when it comes to them. As long as all our access roads to the mountains are gated (powerlines and such) they will have a safe haven to continue populating the state. I hope that there eventually is a happy balance between the two so I can get back to catching some good #s and doubles.I truely miss catching doubles. After walking some of my farms in the snow I see the ratio of coyote to fox is definitely changing fast. So , it seems several different factors are playing into this change .

[Stef]

Well, could be many thing.

Look me this year, have a stretch that I have 5 farms to trap....good funneling area, I normally get 20-30 fox there every year, think in the past 5 years that I caught maybe 2 coyotes in this area.

This year, fox activity was gone....anyway....i ended up on this area with 7 coyotes and 2 fox

Bad to see those fox gone

Stef

[dj88ryr]

17, the fox numbers are REAL low, but don't blame the coyote for all of it. PA has had a triple wammy the past 8-9 years on the fox population, Rabies, distemper, Mange. From biologist that I have talked to, they said that with such a severe hit on the population, it could take 10 years for them to recover fully. I also believe Steve was 100% correct about the weather impact this season, it has been just miserable. Now the big question, while the fox are trying to comeback from the population die off due to disease, the coyotes are exploding all over the state, will there be room for the fox if they can come back? Will the fact that the coyotes are spreading so quickly hamper their comeback. I think the answer is yes to both questions, so in the mean time, we all have to focus on becoming better coyote trappers, #1 to help or numbers on the stretchers, and #2, to keep the coyotes some what in check so we can take a little pressure off of the fox.

[mike692]

Since I've started trapping canines I've noticed a big swing in fox populations between reds and greys here. The first few years was mostly reds with a few greys and the last several have been the opposite. Even when scouting I notice alot more grey sign. And for the first time this year, the coyote sign has even moved ahead of the red sign. I haven't seen alot of mange here and when I have, its just been the tips of tails. Question on mange, I read somewhere that greys don't get mange, is that true?

[redfoxtrapper]

Yes, it is true but they get parvo which has happened in my area this past year or so. Not one grey this year and the reds have dropped some. They coyotes believe it or not have not changed any due to I caught all females two years ago. Whatever I did two years ago sure socked it to em a bit but the parvo got the greys and the red I don't know what is up other than they are spreading out and not so dominant in my direct area.

Lates and hope this helped out a bit.