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Post by thorsmightyhammer on Sept 16, 2006 22:36:20 GMT -6
The angle of the pan (in the area of 20 deg rise) is IMO the secret to the high success Rod has experienced in the box and cubby sets.
JL, what makes say 20 degrees in your opinion the angle to be.
I'm going to play around with them a little in my marten and fisher sets.
Not that I want to catch more weasels and mink in my cubbies but because I am not totally satisisfied with the results I have with a stock trigger.
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Post by thebeav2 on Sept 17, 2006 7:12:16 GMT -6
I don't believe It's the angle of the pan as much as how far the edge of the pan Is from where it's attached. The farther the edge of the pan Is from the jaw the more sensitive It will be. I still don't like the fact that the pan will all way's be caught In the jaws. I don't know If this will result In having live animals In your traps.
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Post by trappnman on Sept 17, 2006 7:16:49 GMT -6
I still don't like the fact that the pan will all way's be caught In the jaws. I don't know If this will result In having live animals In your traps.
beav- you made one up, and you dry fired it a couple of times, and you come to an "always" conclusion?
I took a rag wrapped around a stick, and pushed it through 6-7 times- and never had the pan catch in the jaws of my 220.
I don't know how they work as I never used them- but will take the word of those that have and do.
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Post by thebeav2 on Sept 17, 2006 8:35:27 GMT -6
I was WRONG
I re did the coni pan so the inside edge was even with the jaw that It was connected too. The jaws now miss the the pan when it is sprung. I'm just one of those guys that have to prove things for himself But I will admit to being wrong when I'm wrong. Well sometimes LOL I still haven't built one on a 220 or 160 yet but will let you know the results when I do.
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Post by JLDakota on Sept 17, 2006 17:17:13 GMT -6
Steven, As it relates to the the angled pans (wood, metal or hardware cloth) in box or cubby sets using 160's and 220's I only threw the "in the area of 20 degree angle" out there because IMO 20 is better then 10.
In discussions with Rod on the topic he feels the coon, bobcat and fisher push on the angled pan with their chin or neck as has been referenced but that the mink, weasel, marten and female fisher use the pan as a place to put their front feet as they stand on their back legs to get a good/elevated look at the bait.
Although I think Rod's take on it is most probably accurate, to my way of thinking I want the pan to register in the "mink" type animals mind as a "rest your front feet on while you get an elevated look", or a landing platform of sorts they can land on and/or bounce off easily vs something they can or should jump over. The slight elevation angling back provides no deterent to any animal checking the box/cubby out and "closes down" the 6 & 7" holes some which to my way of thinking, can't hurt anything and is a good thing. I have seen tracks on the snow in trail sets with mink jumping through my "panned" 160's. Not saying they can't or won't still jump through and land behind pan in the box/cubby situation but they are most likely already slowed down to a walk and aware that there's a potential meal in that dark hole that they need to evaluate. Again, I feel the elevated pan with the shut down opening, adds to the chances that they might willingly use it as a spring board.
Obviously if one is to use the wood pans in a trail set you probably have to reduce the angle more towards flat to allow entry from both ways and maybe work out a jump stick arrangement to make the pan a landing site. Food for though anyhow. JL
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Post by Gibb on Sept 18, 2006 6:07:58 GMT -6
We have been using wooden pans for years. Cheers Jim
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Post by irnhdmike on Sept 18, 2006 11:17:13 GMT -6
Does the pan shown replace the trigger altogether? Just curious how it is rug up.
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Post by Gibb on Sept 18, 2006 11:23:47 GMT -6
You still need the dog but both pan are triggers. You would remove the trigger and replace with wooden pan. The target animal would step on the pan and fire the dog. Cheers Jim
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Post by irnhdmike on Sept 18, 2006 12:50:01 GMT -6
Looks like a good system. Shouldn't decrease opening size too much. How about enough clearance for firing?
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Post by thorsmightyhammer on Sept 18, 2006 17:45:33 GMT -6
Thanks JL.
Gibb does somebody sell those?
Those look more like I am thinking about.
Instead of the pan in the center of the trap I was thinking more like those.
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Post by Adirondack-Jim on Sept 18, 2006 19:21:24 GMT -6
From my limited experience on fisher using 160's with the metal coni-pans I think this is right on the money. The smaller fisher seem to be hit behind the shoudlers and around the neck like they've used it for a step, the larger males are caught nicely behind the head like they fired it with their chin. The ones that appear to have stepped through are dead in their tracks, just thrown back when the trap fires with no sign of any struggle. The larger ones hit just around the neck seemed to have expired very quickly with sometimes just extending the cable anchor. These set-ups were with a slight angle up on the pan but not too much to reduce the appearance of the opening. Below is a smaller fisher that expired very quickly with a hit behind the shoulders and across the neck. Another similar hit. A larger male fisher that stretched the cable but appeared to expire quickly based on the minimal leaf disturbance. With bait wired to the back of the cubby and using coni-pans, very few weasels seem to be able to rob bait without getting caught even with 160's. This is a marten taken with a 160 and coni-pan that still had some bait in his mouth when the trap fired. Never moved and just had the snow brushed off for the picture. I think the trick is to have a slight angle on the pan but bend the trigger wires over very close to the metal bracket to leave an opening as large as possible. My $0.02
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Post by edge on Sept 18, 2006 21:43:53 GMT -6
######COMPLETELY OFF TOPIC####
You have been warned;no likey?No read-y
A Jim....I see you have what appears to be a plant pot for a cubby.......I used them on my winter line.....with great success,but one day the pot splintered,cut the crap out of my hand,didnt really know how bad,it was cold. Had thawed fur on the dash and floor of the truck to skin at lunch,ended up getting a huge effing infection that I didnt notice for a week;at which time it was IV antibiotics..........
The funny part.......(aint ya glad)while I thought the nurses were just being real gentle.........I realized that I hadnt undressed completely or bathed in well over a week(too cold)(and the reason I never noticed the black streaks running my arm).....once I warmed a bit,I could smell myself pretty bad.........
They left flyers for shelters and the local food kitchen in my room...........LMAO!!
Our Lady of Perpetual Suffering Hospital prolly *still* talks about that young homeless guy.......
Edge
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Post by Adirondack-Jim on Sept 19, 2006 10:53:31 GMT -6
OT reply...
Sorry to hear about your accident. Must have been a duzzy of an infection. But I can just imagine the nurse's drawing straws to see who got stuck with the stinky guy, what a riot. Next time you show up they'll probably send you to "Our Lady of Perpetual Sorrow" hospital.
I'm guessing you stopped at the shelter for a warm shower and a meal before going back on the line?
Back to topic...
Yes, those are the cheap (free!), thin plastic nursery buckets via Noonan style. They do tend to get a bit brittle in colder temps. The nice thing about them (except for life threatening lacerations) is when they break or a bear rips one up, you just pull another one from the stack and you're good to go. Probably could avoid some bear damage by not wiring the bait to the back but then the weasels would be making off with a lot of it instead of working on it and getting caught.
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Post by mmwb (Andrew Parker) on Sept 19, 2006 11:06:41 GMT -6
AJim, are you gang setting, so that if an ermine ties up a set, you can still get the martin or fisher that comes by?
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Post by Adirondack-Jim on Sept 19, 2006 11:21:32 GMT -6
Some spots have just one set (maybe a marginal location or some small pocket of dark timber along a stream corridor, etc.) but most have two sets anywhere from 20 to 50+ yards apart. Mainly a function of the terrain, where I think the critters might be travelling and past productive locations.
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Post by Gibb on Sept 20, 2006 6:00:58 GMT -6
We sell them in the trap department at Trans Canada Trap Supplies but it would be easier for you to get them from Steve. Cheers Jim
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Post by coyotewhisperer on Sept 20, 2006 20:24:50 GMT -6
Got my order from Steve and I don't know why anyone would want to paint or dye or glue dirt to the pans? I think they are fine as is.
Jeff
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Post by Stanley on Jan 18, 2007 23:04:45 GMT -6
Pic's are here.
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Post by musher on Jan 19, 2007 5:38:33 GMT -6
I've seen a similar idea where the guy took the block of wood, drilled two holes through the thin side, passed the trigger wires through, and bent the wires (with the block through them) so they were at the appropriate angle.
The further you slide the wood, once the wires are bent, the more sensative the trigger. You have to drill two holes. One hole with both wires through it can result in "wood spinning."
It takes a "light" wood. Cedar seemed to be the best choice.
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