Eastern Coyotes Are Becoming Coywolves

[Zagman]

Dusty....

Thanks for posting that....I am not adept at finding science stuff and had mentioned most of what he had said/discovered from memory.

He also had an interesting study on fecal contents and preferred food sources.......

Knowing that there are dudes out there digging through coyote poo, I figured someone must have identified all the subspecies of coyotes as well.

If I find anything else of his, I will post it.

Zagman

[bobwendt]

I have caught some distinctly larger coyotes, like 45 lbs on adults and 35 on november pups at high elevations (8,000 feet or more) in the wind river range. They look very similar to eastern coyotes and obviously not like the standard 28lb lower elevation coyotes, but all the typical grey color. Never caught a red or black or brown in the west, never. that 68 lb. coyote I had the pic of taken here in indiana, not doggy looking at all, but a heck of a wolf headed sob. Steph, can you put that up again? I`d get arrested too if I caught that "thing" in wyoming.

[Gibb]

Do you guys not think that the main source of food might have an impact on the size of the coyotes. The reason I do not have coyotes in my area is food source for the winter. Coyote via there sizes cannot pull down Moose (no deer) with any great success factor in the snow depth and you have a natural selection process that favors timber wolves. The eastern seaboard is now full of whitetail deer a great source of winter food for coyotes. I would think that thou natural selection the feed would encourage a bigger size coyote and weed out the smaller coyotes in most areas of the east.

[mmwb (Andrew Parker)]

"I`d get arrested too if I caught that "thing" in wyoming. "
By the feds, yes.. but the rest of us locals would pat you on the back and buy you a steak!

[bobwendt]

gibb, our western states are ate up with deer. I`ve had a few ranchers keep me in t bones. strictly because they like me, so don`t get any wild ideas. two things I NEVER mess with are wolves and eagles. I had one rancher that was almost a hermit, hardly wanted to say hello and when he did talk it was short, direct and DRY. He flagged me down one day and wanted me to trap an eagle that was poaching lambs. I told him how I just couldn`t do that as my livlyhood depended on my trapping and not getting arrested bla bla. He just was stone silent for about 30 seconds, kind of tense. Where upon he said, "well, if it attacks you , will you at least defend yourself" I said yes and he got back in his truck and drove off. I see an awful lot of dead jacks thrown under where power lines cross. Few dead eagles generally laying there too that picked up a jack and went and lit on the closest high spot for dinner and accidently touched 2 crossing wires. poor birds. once saw another rig where a guy fenced his dead pile off, about 10 feet wide area, you know to keep the coyotes out. few dead eagles in there too. poor buggars are like a boing 707, need about a 10-20 yard run minimum to lift off , not like a helicopter. I`d say likely more than one wolf has accidently got run over in the west and his radoi collar end up stuffed under a motercycle fender heading to california. But seriously, I don`t do that stuff but no doubt some ranchers do. The slick ones have their illegal mexican doing it so he is the mule if it goes sour. Had another rancher tell me go ahead and trap but if I saw anything on his land I wasn`t suppose to see, then I didn`t see it. I said "ok" Weren`t any coyotes left on his place anyway.

[17kiss]

Just as food for thought here. I caught a female "coyote" approximately 4 years ago that the game warden and half the freakin township came to see. Game commission took the skull for meaurement comparisons against a real wolf's skull. Head game warden this area flat out told us that there was no way to prove or disprove what this particular (over 75 pound) animal was. His reason was all our coyotes have WOLF DNA in them. He did call all registered wolf owners to make sure it was not an escapee. No tattos , wild game in stomach , 30 cal bullet healed over in rump under skin. What possibly could this have been? 2 friends , who are lion guides in Utah , happened to be here for our deer season when this happened. They said wolf too. I sold the "wolf" to taxidermist or $350. He in turn mounted it and sold it for $800 plus , on a wolf form.He has pics of the completed mount and animal. I was kind of embarassed about all the excitement. Like I said , just food for thought

[foxtrapperwoman]

Any pics of this animal kiss?

Bob, I do not have the pic of your giant wolf- I mean coyote LOL, it was someone else who was posting it around.

[Dusty]

Bob: Interesting. All the coyotes I've seen from that part of the world - pretty much all lowlanders - are little bitty skinny coyote-lookin' things. Are snow conditions there anything like NE US?

Gibb: yes, I think they do. When I say coyotes are a "plastic species" I mean just what you are saying - they have the genetic potential to change quickly to meet local conditions. Look at the closely related dog - chihuauas and mastiffs are essentially the same genetic critter, it's just expressed differently.

Let me just climb up here....


17 - what ever happened to that skull? Unfortunately, a single skull isn't very valuable statistically, but it, in a big pile of the coyotes you, z, zag, etc. catch could sure shed some light on what's going on there. At least you could know if it's representative of the population.

Just to elaborate on that, there's a 2-headed caribou calf where I work. Everyone who comes to the museum wants to see the thing, except the caribou biologists. It's an anomaly - it clearly isn't representative of caribou in general. Other skulls may be anomalous as well - who knows if that big "coyote" of 17's is a wolf, coyote, dog, or a space alien? It may or may not be representative of the population (which, in my opinion, is all that really matters). Only by having a few (30 of a single age/sex class is probably a good statistical minimum) available can we tell what might be going on.

[Maineman]

I saw this online and thought it fit this thread perfectly...Read the "Blue" below...

www.bright.net/~swopejak/coyote.htm

Dave Z

The Coyote


The coyote, or "little wolf" as the Native Americans call it, is a member of the dog family. It is the topic of many Native American folklore tales. Its name comes from the Aztec word "coyotl." Its scientific name is "canis latrans" which means "barking dog." The coyote, usually associated with the open lands of the
west, is now found throughout the United States. Not native to Ohio, its presence here shows the animal's ability to adapt to new environments. Coyotes' good sense of smell, hearing and vision, along with being sly, enable them to even live in some urban areas. For xample, a pair was found in New York City in
the Spring of 1995. Presently coyotes can be found in all of the 88 counties of Ohio. The coyote has the appearance of a medium-sized dog or a small German Shepherd. Coyotes are about one and a half to two
feet tall and between forty-one and fifty-three inches long. Weight ranges from twenty to fifty pounds. They have a bushy tail that is tipped with black. Most are grey, but some show rust or brown coloration. Coyote tracks are more elongated than dog tracks.
This nocturnal animal is most active at night, but if not threatened by man they will hunt during the day. The coyote is omnivorous. They will eat fruits, grasses, and vegetables along with small mammals. The coyote has a bad reputation for killing sheep and other livestock, but studies show that livestock accounts for only 14 percent of the coyotes' diet. Coyotes mate for life. Between January and March is the breeding period. Most do not breed until they are two years old.
The female selects and maintains the den. They usually dig their own dens but sometimes they use an old badger hole or fix up a natural hole. Dens are usually hidden from view. Females carry their young for over two months. One to twelve pups are born in either April or May. Pups are born blind and helpless. Both parents hunt and feed the young. At three weeks old
the pups leave the den under close watch of their parents. Once the pups are eight to twelve weeks old they are taught to hunt. Families stay together through the summer but the young break apart to find their own territories by fall. They usually relocate within ten miles. Between 50 and 70 percent of the young oyotes die before adulthood. Of the young that die, 80
percent is the result of human trapping, shooting, oisons, or other control methods.

The coyote is capable of producing fertile offspring with many other animals from the dog family. It occasionally breeds with the domestic dog, wild dogs, and wolves. This mixed offspring has created great confusion about whether a real coyote has been seen. The only way to tell the difference is by examination of the skull. The coyotes' skull is narrower and more elongated than the domestic dog. In Ohio 98 percent of the animals sighted, captured, or killed are real coyotes.

More often you will hear a coyote rather than see one. Its howl can be very deceiving. Due to the way the sound carries, it seems as though it is in one place, where the coyote is really some place else. Coyotes have two howling seasons. The first is in January and February. During this time they are trying to find a mate by howling. The second season is in September and
October. During this period the female is calling to her
offspring. The young then call back in unison. After the move westward by settlers, coyotes thrived on ranchers' cattle and sheep. In response, the ranchers
aggressively tried to eliminate the coyote, and almost succeeded. However, due to its intelligence and ability to adapt to changes in its environment, it has not only survives but flourished.

Other Coyote Pages
Ohio Division of Wildlife; Life History Note; Coyote

The Coyote

Coyote

Dog Owner's Guide; Electronic Edition; The Coyote

[Iowa Badger]

This thread is fascinating

[bobwendt]

the snow never melts off the east slopes of the winds high up. I see it in august still there. they set up june sheep camps on 10 feet of snow pac. I guess those coyotes never come down. That country is all wolf country now as that is where the feds yellowstone wolves have taken over, so I imagin they killed all the native big coyotes up there. My rancher swears wolves have always existed in the winds , a smaller wolf, not the timbers that the feds brought in. Along with the other 3 biggest lieis ( we are from the govt and here to help, it`s ok I`m sterile) used to be " there are no wolves in wyoming." and it is cannuck stef that has the pic, not pa steph.

[Stef]

Look guys... yes they found some coyotes with wolf genetics in them and yes they found wolves with coyotes genetics in them.
My coyotes look pretty much the same like Zag's coyotes (sizes, eyes, furs etc,..).

I have killed timber wolves before, seen wolves from the north and seen wolves (algonquin type) from the Papineau-Labelle reserve (close to Ottawa Ontario).
Algonquin wolves feed mostly on beavers and deer.
Northern wolves feed on beavers, moose and caribou. Lot more snow, bigger animals to be killed and the results is larger wolves compared to the algonquin type.

But algonquin wolves look like wolves and not coyotes even if they are not larger than some coyotes me and Zag and others can kill in the north east.

Most of you never see a wolf in all their life.
To me... My coyotes ( remember they look like Northern NY coyotes) they are just COYOTES and they will stay coyotes.
I'm saying this because... I caught some huge coyotes before and even if they looked like a "WOLF FACE".... they are coyotes.

When I got a huge coyote in my trap... when I check the coyote foot.... they are always coyotes.
They have small feet.

When you'll catch a wolf or have the chance to see one dead or alive close to you.... check their feet... it can tell you lot of things.


My 2¢

Stef

[17kiss]

FTW , I dont have any pics , but can get them from my friend who mounted it. Like I said it was too much for my little ego to deal with. Dealt with alot of chit over that one is why i sold it.
Dusty , lost in the system I assume. Never heard anything from them and have asked. just standard BS .
On a different note , sold a roof tonite to an old biker who used to trap pretty good. Now he is an ABATE member and just enjoys relaxing. Anyways , he picked up a large cat off the road 2 years ago and sent it off to be examined by PGC. Contacted the eastern PUMA society and all.PGC biologist sends him a letter saying it was house cat remains. Funny chit ,50 pound house cat , huh? I dont buy into most of the little rumours around , but have personally seen a video back 2 years ago of a pair of cats that was supposedly taped in that area. The person who taped it is kind of a hardass and said the PGC can go to hell before he gave them the tape.Not saying all is as it seems , but does make you wonder alittle? This was in the shade gap area for any who know the place

[17kiss]

I was reading some of the local papers for Wyoming and see that is just another thing to contend with besides lions. Cant complain ;D ;D

[SteveCraig]

Well Heck!
I might as well through in the Mexican Grey Wolf! In the White Mtns of eastern AZ and western NM, wolves are all over the place. They cant keep the darn things in their "home" territories! In the last couple of years, I have called in to under 50 yards, 13 Mexican Grey Wolves. I have had 8 of them at less than 20 yards for over a 5 minute period. Client almost shot one as "he" thought it was a huge coyote!!! He was also from florida too. When you see a wolf, there is no mistaking it for a coyote! All of Zag's pic's( which are very nice pics, by the way), all look like eastern coyotes to me.Looking at those coyotes feet in the trap is the teller. After seeing what a true wolf's foot looks like up close, there is no doubt in my mind that it would fill a Bridger #3 to overflowing. Even big coyotes have small feet.
I will say that you have never experienced a calling stand untill you have 8 wolves( 5 on one stand and 3 on another) running all around you looking for that distress sound. I have called alot of Mtn. Lions and bear into the call and they all pale next to calling in a wolf! It is truely one of lifes great experiences. I wish you all could enjoy that just once in your life.
Steve

[Stef]

Even big coyotes have small feet.

[foxtrapperwoman]

Yes on the feet thing, I pointed out the yearling wolf pup skin I have that measures tip to tip as a typical adult eastern yote, yet has these big feet! Fur it different too.

[trappnman]

When you think about it- coyotes DO have small feet relative to their size. Take a dog the same height and length- and his track will be a minimum of 50% bigger. Size is often my biggest indication of dog, coyote in some soils.

Dogs, at least physically seem to have more in common with wolves than yotes do. Would it follow that dogs have a large % of shared dna with wolves?

[trappnman]

wolf tracks we saw up north

[bobwendt]

I don`t think feet mean any more than color or any other trait trying to call coyotes wolves or 1/2 wolves or 1/4 wolves or whatever. So, do bigger footed canines have bigger, uh, er, you know?