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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2021 13:10:49 GMT -6
Thanks. That was very interesting. I’ve read almost every book out there on canine trapping, Bob is the only guy out there that I ever found who says coyotes in general are spooked of coyote gland lure. Even Craig Ogorman says coyotes are more interested in red fox gland lure than coyote gland lure. I look at it this way, I read everything out there, including these forums, I learn from all these sources. I take bits and pieces and find out what works best for me, and I use it. I appreciate all this information. That, Claybird is exactly how I think it should be. Absorb all the info and observations a person can, shuffle it around and apply it in a manner it fits your circumstances. If it doesn't work, shuffle it again and again until it meets your expectations or a close semblance of what you're looking for.
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Post by claybird on Jul 25, 2021 13:15:41 GMT -6
EXACTLY!!! I’ve learned a TON from a lot of people. I appreciate the great experienced trappers sharing their knowledge with others.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2021 13:25:17 GMT -6
When I had my Youtube channel up I published testing videos of exactly what Bob was saying, some coyote almost turned themselves inside out when they hit the test gland lure. Others would stretch their necks way, way out to sniff but then would quickly turn and leave. This was the typical response to some of-the gland lures literally every time. On the other hand, some gland lures I tested the exact opposite occurred, every coyote would walk right up and sniff & piss as seen in the video clip I posted, in fact, some would actually trot pass the location but once they hit the scent stream they'd quickly turn and come to the lure.
Early on in my gland lure testing I took 1 oz of a well known scent manufacturer and added it to his coyote urine. I was just starting my testing with the cameras so I just used what I had. I had a couple of stretch-neck visits but every single coyote would whirl and run. My 1st thoughts were "and I was putting this crap on my sets???"
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Post by flathead40 on Jul 25, 2021 13:38:51 GMT -6
Claybird, I'm not professing to be an expert on their methods, but from what I've read they both(Bob and Robert) catch a pile of coyotes. Both use different traps and baits. Different styles of trapping too I believe. That to me says more than 1 way works.
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Post by claybird on Jul 25, 2021 13:52:45 GMT -6
Yep, to each his own and neither one of them use lures.
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Post by trappnman on Jul 25, 2021 17:29:28 GMT -6
[Claybird, I'm not professing to be an expert on their methods, but from what I've read they both(Bob and Robert) catch a pile of coyotes. Both use different traps and baits. Different styles of trapping too I believe. That to me says more than 1 way works.]
different mechanical, same mindset on behaviors. I've sat around campfires with both.
Don't know who uses lure or not, just know who I sold lure to when I sold Stefs lures.
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Post by claybird on Jul 25, 2021 18:34:00 GMT -6
Yep, like I said to each his own. They both catch lots of coyotes and are top notch trappers. Bob said he hasn’t used coyote lures in over 30 years and I read where Robert currently uses no lure either.
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Post by trappnman on Jul 26, 2021 6:54:20 GMT -6
IMO, unless using 100% natural bait, you are in effect using a lure.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2021 6:59:59 GMT -6
IMO, unless using 100% natural bait, you are in effect using a lure. I totally agree! I've always wondered if the coyotes were digging out my tests for something to eat or for something to roll on. Every one of my top baits will be rolled on if left at ground level. Well that one video I posted with the 2 grubstakes is a shinning example. The coyote never tried to eat the bait or even chew the grubstake but it rolled on it to beat the band! LOL That's the great thing about cameras and video, instead of all the years trying to accurately read the sign at the test location.
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Post by trappnman on Jul 26, 2021 7:27:30 GMT -6
here is something I'd like to know.
Coyotes dig up and eat gophers i nmy traps all the time (badgers as well). and there is gobs of human scent and often dog scent. Coyotes have no problems eating them, and they are dead in trap.
But- when I cut the front feet (bounty proof) and toss the gophers in a field- they lay there untouched til the buzzards get them.
Yet, those same gophers down the hole, attract coyotes.
so I have two theories- 1) the ones I toss are covered with scent, but in the hole with lure bait it doesn't matter?
or 2) is it because they are just laying on the ground>
lol- don't know, but something I wonder at
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2021 9:39:15 GMT -6
I did the same thing 1 year with chipmunks and learned my lesson. We have tons of chipmunks because they are the wife's pets and she enjoys them but when there is too many and a couple get in the garage I thin them out. I use my old weasel boxes and freeze them as soon as I catch them so they are fresh. That one year I'd use my normal combos in dirt holes but I'd add a chipmunk to the hole, head facing up, on top of the bait at only one set. NEVER caught a coyote or fox in a set where there was a chipmunk but caught them in sets 20' away where I'd not added the chipmunk.
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Post by flathead40 on Jul 26, 2021 14:26:01 GMT -6
Any natural bait you use is going to have human scent on it. Beaver meat, horse, muskrat... As well as the entire area you're making the set. Wouldn't think that would bother on gophers would you? Any chance it's because they go right to your stakes looking for dinner?
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Post by claybird on Jul 26, 2021 15:33:55 GMT -6
I agree with the commercial bait pretty much being a lure as well. I tried to get Waddell to agree on lynxlair a couple years ago but got no where… they were talking about this very subject. Maybe he uses all natural bait, I don’t know.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2021 15:56:10 GMT -6
Bob and Robert were regular attendees on this board years ago as I was. I remember one time and one time only Bob told told that he was using Rich’s bait and that he had Rich increase the % of certain musks/glands/etc to his specifications/recipe. Shortly after that it was on all trapping forums that Bob used Rich’s bait! Holy Cow, it must have been a landslide for Rich! What was funny to me back then was nobody ever mentioned Bob’s “ramped-up” version, they had to buy the bait Bob used! LMAO!
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Post by claybird on Jul 26, 2021 19:04:07 GMT -6
As far as the grub stakes go, the best lure I found for them for fox and coyotes is Graham’s Mild Bonanza. Another good one as well is Carmans Vent Scent or Carmans Canine Call. I’ve had fox and coyotes chew the heads right off with those lures.
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Post by claybird on Jul 26, 2021 19:05:12 GMT -6
Carman said the Vent Scent is the best canine lure he ever made.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2021 20:02:38 GMT -6
Carman said the Vent Scent is the best canine lure he ever made. I happen to have a jar but haven't tested it yet. In Carman's' Pro Grade pamphlet, the way he describes it, it's pretty versatile. I do have a favorite Carman lure that was my top producer/combo for years until it got pushed into 2nd slot by an O'Gorman's. I had a bad experience with this Carman's lure in 2019 when I received my lure order that spring. I cracked the cap on a bottle of this particular lure and it didn't smell anything like all the rest, even did a side by side comparison-terrible. Smelled like septic and came with a white label and my older bottles were all yellow label. If you've ever smelled Wieser's Liquid Canine Bait, this was close but I don't think Carman uses the same base ingredient!LOL I immediately took that white label bottle and the rest of my partial yellow label out to test. The yellow label got dug out to 1/4 bushel basket size quickly and had repeated visits a month later. The white label test was only about 6-8' away and nothing!! In fact, northing ever touched the white label test hole unlike what you'd see with Wieser's LCB, whereas the yellow label was still going strong a month later with visits! I contacted a heck of a bunch of suppliers looking for that lure in the yellow label but most had restocked with the white label. I found a couple of 4oz bottles at a small supplier in WI owned and operated by a doctor. The other bottles I found right here in MI from a fur buyer and bought them all. That was in 2019 so maybe that years' batch is long gone but I've got white label phobia now!!
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