Coyote visuals

[trappnman]

I wonder how many realize how important visuals are to a coyotes curiosity. As an fyi, research shows that more prey is located first visually than either by scent of noise.

Most know about using bones at the set- but how many use visuals away from the set?

I started out using old bones, and would use them at flat sets, their curved nature worked well with a walktrough.

But had too many. or at least more than I liked- take the bone (esp if lured) and not work the set. So I started using them away from the set.

I've got a collection of skulls, hip bones, etc that embarrasses me, esp on opening day when it looks like an old time bone wagon going down the road and I often wonder what people think- a man, a woman, a dog and a truck loaded with skulls....

I use one at most sets, until I run out. I like them 25-30 feet from the set, and often either have the bone as part of a triangle with 2 sets, or between 2 sets. I can see a bone from an incredible distance away, and a coyote can as well. The thought is to get him there, and his innate suspicion of new things will keep him in the area trying to figure it out, and he will work the sets while there. I'm convinced this is true, far too many personal examples of a bad location becoming better once a skull was added. And I often have a skull moved, and a coyote in the trap.

But a guy can find only so many skulls- Ive a couple bone piles I can pick through each fall, but I never have enough. Listened to a radio interview with Slim a couple of seasons ago and he was talking visuals, and mentioned that if you didn't have a bone, just put dirt in a white plastic bag, that it would serve the same purpose. And it does indeed. In fact, once last year and once the year before, because of farming practices we were forced to set into brush and tall grass.. .so I tied a white bag in one of the bushes about 20 feet from set. Bingo.

I did have one location thats a very good location, I always put 4 traps in the bottom big waterway complex running up to a pasture on 1 side and a big dairy on the other where I used to set a trap up top, and caught a coyote there occasionally (but nothing like the bottom which is why I quit setting it) and we decided to throw in what we call a "stinger set". not the best location, but a poke and hope type spot. It was right on the peak on the hill, and a skull would not be visible in any direction. So I figured what the heck, and pounded in a 36" rebar and set the skull on it. By happenstance, I set in on the rebar at its pivot point, and the next day I could see it slowly spinning around. I thought this is either going to be my best set ever and every coyote for 5 miles will see it and come...or its going ot scare everything away. Never caught one there, but caught plenty in bottom so not sure if it was the set or location (I think personally the set but if the only set maybe....)and haven't tried that again. But surely the bags in the brush had motion, so I don't know......

speaking of visuals- my gopher traps are wired to metal elec fences posts turned to the triangle piece is on top, and them most have the triangle orange, with orange flagging tape. Btw flagging tape at or near a set doesn't bother coyotes. In Wy after the 1st snow, every st once found got flagging tape on the very bush used as a backing and it deterred coyotes not at all. With those gopher traps, I get gophers dug up and eaten out of the trap on a regular basis. I've toyed with the idea of setting on my gopher farms with a stake at each set- loose in ground so no entanglement. We've had coyotes and badgers go through a field, eating every gopher there- Lori calls it gopher on a stick.
You would think, that a stake would be a bonus- carried a few stakes last year and tried them at a marginal location, but no success but not a true test in any form.

Comments?

[Deleted]

Well you and I have plowed this ground before and I'm glad you brought it back for discussion.
Bear with me as I layout what I feel pertains to this "visual" supplement to a set. Last year and 1/2 I decided to really study to find out how to use gland lures and which gland lures were good and which were actually bad/poor. While doing the studies under camera I also thought I'd include the addition of stick-type visuals with the lures figuring I could kill 2 birds with every video clip. Adding a 1" dia dead stick sticking up 6"-9", straight up or leaning scared the pants off the coyote! regards of the direction of approach, upwind or downwind, they would bolt from 20' away. In the videos I could actually recognize when the coyotes would 1st see the stick and their next reaction.

At my test sites I took away the stick but used the same gland lure and the avoidance stopped!! That's not to say some coyotes reacting to certain gland lures didn't become hesitant , they did. If it was a "good" gland lure they came in calmly.

For years I've tested call lures and baits, actually since 1971-2 just by testing on sandy ground and reading the sign.  With my desire to "learn" gland lures I invested in good game cameras and started buying lures.  The cameras opened up a whole new world of testing opprotunitites for me so all I had to do was put the lures and cameras in front of coyotes.  I was surprised how many property owners that allowed me to trap refused to allow cameras. The overall thought was they didn't want me to see "their" big bucks as if I could give a crap BUT they also are aware that loose lips sink ships so they didn't want to trust me for a loose lip. LOL

I was somewhat taken back by the lack of effectivness of some of the gland lures, some even that others had highly praised how great they are.

[flathead40]

Seldom, good to see you again. Have you seen the same reaction to bones/skulls as you have to the stick? Any difference in reaction between open ground( beans, hay) and wooded? Do you think the reaction is because of the deer hunting, or do you think it's just natural? Seems odd the coyotes would be spooked by the site of a stick at an angle. Your stick surely can't be the first one they've ever seen.

[Deleted]

Right back at ya Flathead because I remember you as well!
There were 2 test sites where I used sticks, one was on the edge of a filter strip/chisel-plowed field and the other was on a grown-over, sandy ridge which only had sparse tall grasses. Both test locations were on travel ways.

The test on the edge of the filter strip was done in March and I could see coyotes tripping along out in the plowed ground actually more than on the filter strip. Most of the coyotes all traveled within 8' of the edge so I made a test upwind and actually out in the plowed field and further along the edge I made a test in the filter strip about 4' downwind.

At the other test site there was no edge whatsoever but the coyotes liked to travel along in a bout a 12' swath/pathway/corridor.

Here is the only conclusion I could come up with that explained the neophobic reaction, The stick wasn't there naturally so it was the 1st stick they'ed ever seen there!! One night there was no sticks and the next time the coyote came through here was this stick. These coyotes were traveling doing that 3.5mph and it was seriously interesting to see them jerk away from their line of travel and go around. A very few would put on the breaks and sort of creep toward the stick but not come any closer than say 2'-3', stretch out for a sniff and whirl away. I never did have a coyote sniff a stick during the 10 nights of the test.

After I watch the videos and saw the reactions I went back to change the cards and I pulled the sticks. I had lured the sticks at their base so after I pulled themI put a dab of the same gland lure on a low clump of grass within inches of the stake hole.

Another 10 nights and I had coyotes coming to the lures without fear. Some stretched their neck, sniffed & left. Others sniffed and pissed. Other gland lures they either walked by without acknowledging the lure of they'd pause, sniff the air and move on. I did have a red fox and 2 coyotes trip right on pass a lure by 10'-15' and apparently hit the scent, whirl aroud and come directly to the lure without hesitation.

[flathead40]

Interesting. It would be interesting to see the reaction to the lure/stick at the end of the travel way. (stall out location) Seems like in open moving along areas, they are much more leery of anything new. I've noticed similar reactions to sets. field road after crops are gone and it's wide open up top, they'll go around or past it. Leave it there long enough, they'll check it from the back or side, not the front. Set the waterway intersections at the bottom,(stall out ?) they just pile in and get caught. Same everything that's in the sets up top, wide open. I don't get time to do much testing, but try this type of stuff during the season when I get a chance. I have 1 farm that I've done this on for quite a few years now, proved it to myself. I like using bones/skulls, think they help a lot. But seems like they have to be in the right situation or they just won't hit it. They also won't work sets without bones easily in those same locations it seems to me.

[flathead40]

Thanks for moving it.

[flathead40]

So Seldom or anyone else, have you tested other visuals or just the sticks? Why do you think, (if you do) they are attracted sometimes and spooked others? Seems to me it has something to do with the reason they are at that particular place.

[Deleted]

I forgot to answer the question if I use bones/skulls? No, There’s really no place for me to get them. The only diary farmer I have composis everything.

Also I forgot to mention are my thoughts why some folks have success with bones, sticks, & black cubes. In all coyote populations there is a mix of timid and aggressive coyotes, the larger the population the larger the number of both. During those 10-nights tests I had 4 coyotes come through during each testing. Did I have 4 timid coyotes by chance come through or was there an aggressive 1 or 2. If I had any agressive in the 4 I sure didn’t see it. What if I had 20 coyotes come though in 10 nights, could I expect an aggressive coyote or 2 or 3? Probably. 4 animals is a pretty small sampling but you go with what you have.

I did have several more coyote at test site #2 but the reaction was identical to test site #1 10 miles away.

[Deleted]

I remember watching a Mark June video and he used sticks to make piss posts with supposed success. LOL, now I ask myself thinking about that video, “how many coyotes ran away before he caught 1?” Seriously! LOL. And by the way, I tested his 2 gland lures and I’ll say no more. LOL. I tested a nice handful of the “big names” galnd lures and also, I’ll say no more. LOL

[flathead40]

I've had virtually zero success with his lures. Trapline testing unfortunately. I think I would have been better off with an empty hole and piss. Which brings up a question as to how that's possible. Was trapping with a buddy at the time, he had equal success with different June lures as me. (None) So is that just individual, the area, or just a great marketing man. How can "big shot" lures be so popular if they don't produce. Bait too. Same thing

[Deleted]

Jul 24, 2021 16:28:33 GMT -6 flathead40 said:

I've had virtually zero success with his lures. Trapline testing unfortunately. I think I would have been better off with an empty hole and piss. Which brings up a question as to how that's possible. Was trapping with a buddy at the time, he had equal success with different June lures as me. (None) So is that just individual, the area, or just a great marketing man. How can "big shot" lures be so popular if they don't produce. Bait too. Same thing

I really believe it's ALL of your reasons rolled into one big fact!  When I 1st started testing in the early 70's is was so I'd be offering something  different from the fox trappers setting on either side of me But I learned that there was far more to this business of selling bait and lure.  I found that an extremely small % is actually tested before traps are set.  The scents are handed out to buddies to try on their lines and buddies don't normally bite the hand that feeds them!!!!  All subjective results and absolutely no documentation showing an objective testing by anybody, and certainly not the manufacturer!!

I've found you are more or less buying a pig-in-the-poke unless you get the scent manufacturer to tell you about the scent in detail and they really can only relate what their buddies said, which means nothing to me.  Must be a lack of trust on my part but it sounds as though your findings aren't much different than mine!!  Is the scent for dirt-holes or flat sets.  if it's for flat sets is it on the top the ground of 1" below?  This has to do whether the lure has any "lift".  No lift, don't put it below ground level.  Do they tell you this?  Heck no, because they probably don't know!  Was the supposed testing done with coyotes or as I've found, dogs.  I can tell you there are some scents dogs go crazy for but coyotes don't. 

I did a little urine testing that year as well.  I had bought some from the "big Boy" out west, kept it frozen and put it on grass clumps under the camera.  I had no idea urine would chase off coyotes but it did!!  Tried some urine from a fella in a state west of Michigan and the coyotes were perfectly fine with it and never hesitated to approach it.  I'ved use very little urine over the years and the cameras showed me why I was right not to.  I still use very little even though the urine I have in freezer now has tested OK.

[trappnman]

I remember you posted several years ago, that after our discussions, you increased your urine use and saw an increase in success rates?

[Deleted]

Probably due to that urines quality that I had at the time. I decided the next year I actually thought the urine was repealing the coyotes. Several years later with that same but new urine my cameras proved urine can repeal! Things like opinions cange change over the years because circumstances change beyond our control.

[trappnman]

I guess I never bought bad urine. I 100% believe liberal use of urine, increases catches. I think urine use, is an east/west thing (not individuals but overall). Western trappers use far more urine than those I talk to in the east (some not using any urine at all). I'm definitely in the western school of thought here that its not a lure, its a suspicion remover.

[Deleted]

Hopefully you've viewed the 2 clips I posted well here's a clip of what occurred at the test site 3 days before the pair of coyotes showed up. You should be able to recognize the location from the previous clip. Not only did 2 mushroom pickers step directly on my piece of rotten wood the lure was on, they came back through 1 stepping on it again. LOL
youtu.be/3DdGnhw5MSc

[flathead40]

What's wrong with that dogs face? Did you relure or just leave it

[Deleted]

Jul 25, 2021 10:20:47 GMT -6 flathead40 said:

What's wrong with that dogs face? Did you relure or just leave it

I pulled the camera and when I was home I saw it all play out.  So 3 days after the people walked thru twice the pair of coyotes showed-up as you saw in the other video clip.  Uncomcerned about the family of the dogs. I didn’t touch anything where the gland was but I think I picked up a turd there a couple weeks later while setting up another test location with a different scent.