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Post by trappnman on Mar 28, 2017 7:25:40 GMT -6
I'm in an odd space right now. At 66, I've been setting traps for almost 60 years. I started out on muskrats and gophers, did a little bounty trapping for skunks and fox as a teen, then settled into mink/rats in water for the next 15 or so years. Moved to Lake City in 1985, and started water trapping here, and started trapping beaver a little harder, and coon in the water as well. in 1987, I went seasonal full time trapping, and since we had no coon season, hit coon hard on land, then went to the water. After doing this for a couple of years, to get permission on a good piece of coon land, I agree to trap "his coyotes". I had never seen a coyote, had heard them a few times, and this was early in the expansion. My brother in law and I trapped 7 coyotes off that farm. I thought that was very cool, so the next year decided to trap coyotes for 2 weeks before water and caught ZERO on new farms. But that pissed me off, so I read and read the 2 books the library had and the next year went out and trapped 15. That did it- the next year I went to water a week later, and the next year a eek later... to where I was a couple of years ago- trap coyotes 5 weeks, pound the water hard throughout the winter.
Now am at the point where coon, and water, just don't interest me beyond a hobby approach- meaning running a few sets for a short period for fun. And it was fun- but this winter (and last) on the snowy days, or the below zero days...have to say didn't bother me too much looking out the window.
I feel guilty- I'm in excellent health, but..............
I guess, as a friend told me you are enjoying being "retired" and I guess that's true.
So, in my retirement years, I'm going to concentrate on coyotes
in that vein, I've been rereading all the coyote books I have. Interesting reading, some I agree with, some I don't. But occasionally I like to go back and look at it again with a new perspective.
One such thing I read was trap placement- this was in bud boda's book- and he said he always puts the loose jaw towards the hole.
and that is something I never did- I always put the loose jaw at either 3 or 9 various reasons- take the dog out of the center of the pattern, and to not have a loose jaw for a coyote to "Scrape back" when at the hole. But to be honest, I figured it didn't matter all that much.
Bud's thought was that using trap covers- ie screens, you are going to have the screen over the trap, usually under the jaws slightly, and that if a coyote steps on the loose jaw, occasionally the pressure of the loose jaw slightly going down, causes the screen to move slightly.......
hmmmmn
I'm going to give that a shot.
Any comments on this, or any other trap placement issues?
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Post by RdFx on Mar 28, 2017 8:32:59 GMT -6
Well if Bud thought that if yote stepped on loose jaw it would move slightly was reason he put loose jaw to the open hole....then it sounds like he didnt have firm ground or item under loose jaw.... at least thats the way im reading it. There are alot of differant ways good yote trappers position their traps. I believe its something that works for them so they use their method as it is producing yotes with minumum problems.
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Post by trappnman on Mar 28, 2017 8:40:32 GMT -6
no, that's not it. Bud was anal about bedding traps tight (Bud was anal about a lot of things).
he is talking not rocking, but just the slight tension put on the jaw BY having the screen under it
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Post by lumberjack on Mar 28, 2017 8:48:27 GMT -6
Im not much for canine trapping but when I make most any kind of land set the loose jaw is to the left (9:00). Just seems to fit my bed better and you never know which way a grey is coming in anyhow. Maybe you need to switch it up, trap water early and land late? No offense to anyone, but I always thought water trapping was way harder than any land trapping I ever did- sloshing around in water, I seem to carry more stuff, further away from the truck. Its always a relief for me to switch over from water to land, jump out of the truck, pop a couple in, move on......I do trap woods a lot and I make a small loop from where I park. And the big plus, hunters are few and few between at that time.
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Post by Aaron.F on Mar 28, 2017 19:24:28 GMT -6
If I remember correctly JC Connor advocates the loose jaw closest to the hole also. I can't quite remember why he said it, but based on what I have seen from his videos, he has a reason for everything. I will have took take a look and see what he said.
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Post by RdFx on Mar 29, 2017 8:54:36 GMT -6
JCs position is that when yote puts his foot on pan and body weight with his trap you get a good paw hold. This is probably that the yote has his full paw on pan and not just toes before trap fires with proper pan tension.
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Post by trappnman on Mar 30, 2017 6:40:45 GMT -6
on the Montana traps, the pan sits AT jaw level, not below- thus any screen takes careful use- thats why you can't use stiff screen with them.
RdFx- that would apply to any postion
which is harder, water or land? That's a tuff one because both can be killers when running hard. I don't know if there is anything more physically demanding than running a high volume coon line in water where you never get a break and each day is moving traps, carrying coon, up and down banks and then handling a high volume of coon. I haven't the desire on many fronts.
Beaver too, if running a lot of traps
A mixed water bag, once out, is the easiest in my opinion to run and maintain. You seldom have "fail" days unless massive weather conditions. But when ice and snow set in, water can be as hard as anything- but at least (for me) you would have days off in between.
What I like about water, is that weather, unless extreme, doesn't effect one much. and the fur is 99% dead, and clean. And I like the mystery when you got a slide in dark water, and you wonder what it is.
Land, imo, is the hardest physically for me to set up- it just takes a darn lot of hard work to set up a coyote line. and access is key- you always have to keep in mind- what if it rains? (and it always does). And preseason prep- my water prep is minimal- rigs are ready, no prep needed. But land- many days talking to farmers each year, peat to store, dirt to gather, traps to dye, wax, go through etc.
plus the planning- for me, water trapping is just SOP but coyotes- my gosh its a constant mental game all year.
So, I guess I answered my own question- for me land is far more time consuming off season, plus more physical to put out- and then, you run it for a few days, pull it all and the next day start all over again.
I guess for me it is this- and I mean to insult no one- water is not necessarily too easy, but too predictable I guess-
where as coyotes.....each and every year its....NEXT year, I'm doing THIS
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one change this year is I'm going to set all my traps loose jaw towards hole- With coyotes you don't have to worry about jaw position aka mink, so I don't think it matters that way, but if that loose jaw/screen idea has any merit, I'll find out.
I'm also, after many years, going to put helper springs on all my montanas-
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Post by RdFx on May 6, 2017 12:14:35 GMT -6
Trapperman i you would position a Jake trap where the yote comes in over the loose jaw and toes just hit front of pan.....that in itself is differant than coming over the other jaw. I feel that is reason Conner favors that postion......
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Post by trappnman on May 9, 2017 6:28:30 GMT -6
I'm not too sure what you mean Lee. I've only used Jakes once out west, and my memory is hazy- but they don't have loose jaw, do they? if not, then I can see why he places them as he does.
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Post by natedawg on May 17, 2017 22:27:46 GMT -6
Jakes do have a loose jaw.
I can't explain this as clearly as J.C. stated it, but it was to the effect of when a coyote is stepping up to a set the direction of pressure of their foot is going down and forward. So in considering that, it is easier for the pan to drop if they are stepping over the fixed jaw and their foot "slides in deeper" as the pan drops. As the side of the pan next to the loose jaw will drop lower and that forward pressure of their foot will allow it to go down deeper.
I'm not advocating any particular way, just trying to relay his thought process, and it does make sense to a degree when you think about it.
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Post by trappnman on May 19, 2017 12:36:49 GMT -6
boy, I hate to disagree with JC- but I don'r know if I agree with the sliding step scenario. or even the mechanics of it. for sure, the free edge of the pan is going to have a lower tension than the far end, but wouldn't that mean their foot was sliding UP?- as on a see saw?
but more so, I don't believe coyotes approach deep into a set with continuous motion- that is, I see my dog approach things, and its stiff legged and deliberate.
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Post by RdFx on May 19, 2017 14:47:53 GMT -6
No Steve the foot of the yote is stepping over the fixed jaw and pan attached to fixed jaw, so foot is going down and forward as pan drops.
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Post by trappnman on May 20, 2017 9:57:13 GMT -6
I understand down- but its "forward" I question. in other words, I don't think, at the last few steps, is moving forward in a normal gait- ie swinging foot forward- but its stiff legged- and picking up and setting down
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Post by MRussell on Sept 29, 2017 20:12:37 GMT -6
I often wonder what is it about my "way" that could use some improvement. I consistently catch what I am after so when I do have the time and weather conditions(yes life has made me to be a fair weather canine trapper)to get after the dogs I totally enjoy it. However us trappers know there is always the ones that we missed for one reason or another. Why we get torn up about the ones that didn't even give us a second look, who knows. Where is the guide placed in regards to the loose jaw/pan is a question that I would ask.
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Post by trappnman on Sept 30, 2017 7:02:14 GMT -6
I'm convinced that is there is a Silver bullet on coyotes.....its presentation.
I think the % of coyotes that we have aware of our sets, but either not work them or not work them in such a way as to get caught, is far higher than many think. (damn snow!)
So the answer is either to run tons of traps, taking that small % but making it up in volume of traps- OR......
one can try to increase that %.
Part of that, for me, is lazyness on my traps. I know I lost coyotes last year, and perhaps a few the year before, because my traps were getting old. That was solved this year, by adding 4 coil springs.
Another weakness I have, is not getting substantial enough backings. I use them if I got them, but I should perhaps import more at the location- I do lose a few that work it from the back despite the "backing". I'm improving at this.
I read this about coon trapping, but it certainly applies to coyotes as well- its hard to drive by a location where you know you can catch a coyote. This leads to maintaining and checking far to many empty traps.
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Post by RdFx on Oct 1, 2017 2:40:54 GMT -6
And then there is the stalling out equation....if one follows the idea
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Post by trappnman on Oct 1, 2017 6:37:46 GMT -6
yes- always at the forefront.
I've really been pressing the idea in my demos- and when I ask "would you rather have a coyote encounter your trap when he is on full alert.....or when he is relaxed and his defenses are down?"
it seems to connect.
I have 1 more day talking to farmers, and then except for loading the truck (going in this week for the "pre line" checkup) we are ready for the season.
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Post by RdFx on Oct 2, 2017 5:47:27 GMT -6
Having the coyote relaxed and moving forward when not in an alert mode is what you want when setting up cables for your yotes. This would apply also when using footholds for yotes. A yote walking naturally into a cable allowing cable to slide down with his forward movement with yote thinking the cable against his neck being just weeds ect., results in catch as with yotes working a foothold set and stepping into set pattern without wondering whats around him.
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Post by trappnman on Oct 4, 2017 6:55:22 GMT -6
a good example of this is something Rally told me about placing things over the snare to make them "crawl under". He said why on earth would you want a coyotes attention AT the snare?
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Post by trappnman on Oct 4, 2017 7:04:05 GMT -6
Good day of talking to farmers- had a couple that said they'd put any dead calves where I need them, and quite a few mentioned coyote sightings that day, or shortly before, and lots of "really been hearing them" comments. Lots and lots of corn and beans out there. No one is picking corn yet, but I'd say the dairies are just about done chopping. Lots of beans as well- and rain last couple of days, and more end of week- still going to be a lot out there. went to menards and to get more screen and gloves- rats, out of gloves in my size and out of the screen I like. I ordered both- 3 day shipping only $6 and change- heres the screen I like for the montanas- www.menards.com/main/doors-windows-millwork/window-door-screening-supplies/screens/adfors-48-x-84-brite-aluminum-replacement-screen/p-1444449057222-c-7666.htm?tid=27365109550729967&ipos=3truck dropped off at mechanic today- so today we put the bikes away (for every season,turn, turn turn....) and put the fur shed together getting close..getting pumped!
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