it is official Obama Veto's Keystone Pipeline

[trappincoyotes39]

Who would have thought such A time to create jobs, revenue and work with our northern partners shot down for more political gain than any other reason simple to see really. Panos we shall see if they can get a 2/3 rds vote to override the veto or not.

To bad The money could have helped many areas of the rural US..............

[trappincoyotes39]

The 1,179-mile pipeline would connect tar sands crude oil in Alberta Canada with an existing pipeline in Nebraska, allowing energy company TransCanada to pump 830,000 barrels a day to refineries in the Midwest and the Gulf Coast.

The issue split Congress largely along party lines, but also divided key Democratic constituencies. Terry O'Sullivan, general president of the Laborers' International Union of North America, called the veto "disgustingly predictable."

But environmentalists claimed victory. "The pen was mightier than the pipeline," said Anna Aurilio of Environment America.

Obama's veto doesn't mean the end of the Keystone debate. Obama could still approve the project on his own authority, although he has suggested that its environmental impacts would outweigh any economic benefits.

Under an executive order signed by President George W. Bush, the State Department is reviewing the proposal to determine whether it's in the national interest, although Obama can ultimately override the State Department's recommendation.

TransCanada first applied for permits to build the pipeline in 2008, and there's no indication of when the review will be finished. "It's an ongoing process that doesn't have a deadline," State Department spokeswoman Jen Psaki said this month. The company said in a statement it remains committed to the project and is working with the State Department to resolve environmental concerns.

[trappincoyotes39]

rapidcityjournal.com/news/local/questions-with-keystone-pipeline-president-corey-goulet/article_19b8003d-e956-5f73-a1ad-bec4e802f08b.html

[bblwi]

I am in agreement regarding the rail car usage and the backlog that is creating for the movement of Ag commodities. The backside of that is however the Ag community will then be tied even closer to the oil industry as to the creation, movement and marketing of their inputs and production. I am hearing some better freight opportunities now that oil production is being curtailed in several areas.
I think the real problem to me is not as much environmental but personal property rights of land owners. I have had to do crop loss estimations for farmers that have pipelines here in our red clay and the compaction of the clay soils last years if not decades so the value received by the land owner here is many times far below the loss in production. We also have a lot more development and land prices after are strongly impacted and mostly to the lower end. It may not be that way in the drier short grass prairies.
Also the energy industry in the USA has ramped their cost of production up to about $60 per barrel for the older established wells and fields and up and over $100 in a lot of the newer wells and locations. That does not bode well with OPEC being able to determine profitability by just choosing to close or open valves. That makes many long term investments more marginal and that may well be true with Canada as well.
It is also very interesting that we continue to want to refine almost all of our oil in a concentrated area. That could be due to regulation (which over time can be changed if pushed) or that the refined oil will be near shipping so that it can always be close to where the highest bidder can get even our own oil, as well as the imported crude.
Americans will continue to move away from 100% fossil fuel autos because being controlled by a few hundred thousand persons scattered over the world and the USA is reason enough to seek other alternatives. It is interesting that with the Canadian Government or at least some of the provincial governments controlling and owning much of the oil production that their government is not lobbying harder for this pipeline as well.

Bryce

[trappnman]

good news- that hype about jobs and cheap oil is just that- nonsense.

creating more than a handful of jobs is false- and our northern partners- are in it only for the tax free refineries and a cheaper way to ship that oil overseas

there is very, very little of it that benefits anyone in the States-

odd though that you have no problem with another country, using eminent domain to confiscate land- thought you were a personal property rights guy

the pipeline is a classic case of paying off some talking heads, mixing up some koolaid and standing back to watch the sheep take up the cry

[trappincoyotes39]

Tman the benefit is for eaxh state to decide and them alone. The guise that this is an enviromental concern is hog wash. You see we have a lot going by rail car which de rail to yet we still move in oil in that way, we have a pipeline in AK, why not shut it down? We'd still drill in the gulf lets shut it down, fracking is seen as bad yet we frack in the Bakkan formation as we speak?

We want to lessen our dependence on foreign oil yet we don't want to do much about it? LOL.

20 million for a state like SD which is just one of many involved would gladly take the 20 million in 10 years that is 200 million more than a few bucks for sure. Not counting local taxation that is a benefit as well.

The pipeline has to go somewhere, many people have signed off on such and then many don't want the govt buying ground either.

Yet the president never stated such for his veto made it all on the claim of environmental concerns did he not?

The veto is a classic case of talking heads from the rail industry and the green movement as well.

I am sure you heard of the de railment of ethanol back in my old stomping grounds in NE Iowa did you not? Wonder what would happen if they had a pipeline for that hum? maybe the Mississippi would be cleaner today?

[trappincoyotes39]

Bryce you won't find much harder soils than in western SD and western ND soil compaction can be an issue with row crops and seeded areas but natural grasses do just fine in such for the most part.

if you have an issue with property rights well then we will never increase our infrastructure much at all, if we need to add roads or make changes to essisi ting roads it normally takes the addition of private property, as well as electrical and other things as well.

yes refineries are very hard in this day and age to get permitted for as again our federal govt would be hard pressed to sign off on new ones. They bring in a lot of good paying jobs as well and add to the local and state coffers. Their is a nice sized one in Mandan,ND just on the other side of the Missouri river from Bismarck

71,000 barrels a day. Funny thing is they have a pipeline that takes this east to Minniesota for the benefit of those people as well. Imagine that ?

High paying jobs and they refine a lot of oil there.

[trappnman]

1)please explain, how the pipeline reduces our dependence on foreign oil

2) you favor foreign countries, exercising eminent domain for their bottom line? wow- thats a radical belief

[trappincoyotes39]

Easy the more oil,in the pipeline brings down prices and if your a realist one will see that much of what would be refined would stay in North America if not why not just run a pipeline to the ocean through their own country and boat it off to foreign lands?

You see their has been debate on where this refined product would all go and when the guy running the show says the majority would stay here in NA no one wants to believe him

Tman how did the keystone pipeline get the ok in the first place? Hum? Canada is neighbor and a good one not like Venezuela where people like Chavez can come to a UN meeting in our country and start bashing on us!

Business ventures with Canada is a win win for both countries involved. Easy to see if one opens their eyes.

Wee shall see if this veto helps or hurts his 46 percent approval rating.

[trappnman]

where do you think that oil is going to be sold?

but please- show me the EXACT words "your guy thats running the show" said that states any increased oil will be sold in the US?

why not run a pipeline ot the coast, as in Plan B? "the guy running the show" said they could, but it would cost his company more money to build

[trappincoyotes39]

But once refined, is that the oil more likely to be used domestically or exported?

Answer by Corey goulet president keystone pipeline.

The majority of refined products that are produced by these refineries are used right in America. In any given year in the last few years, maybe one-fifteenth of the refined products, maybe a little more might be exported but the majority of it is used right here in North America.

[trappnman]

please reread what you just posted-

any given year in the last few years, maybe one-fifteenth of the refined products, maybe a little more might be exported but the majority of it is used right here in North America.

and THAT is true- and the reason it IS true- is now, that oil is being refined IN THE MIDWEST. and I'll not even point out that "
north america" doesn't mean THE UNITED STATES- or he would have stated that loud and clear

do you see what you posted above- is apples and oranges to what you orignally posted "the guy running the show says the majority would stay here in NA no one wants to believe him

EXACT words DO matter.....

so, if the goal of the pipeline is to get more oil to the states- why the need for it to be refined in coastal ports? already getting to the refinerys, and there is NO back up at the refinerys-

sorry old friend- the REASON for the pipeline, is to export more oil, cheaper

the pipeline would: change the majority of the refinery process from the midwest, where the process is taxed-

to the coastal areas, where becasue of loopholes, the process would be TAX FREE.

and having the oil refined literally next to the ships that would take it overseas, costs less

so forget the high horse bull of more jobs nad cheaper oil- becasue it al lcomes down to MONEY- and its not money going into te pocketso f te average joe o nthe street.

in addition, EVERY report I've read- states domestic gas prices would INCREASE at the pump-

[trappincoyotes39]

Tman what does North America mean good grief man. It is the US or Canada, you trying to find cover for a political issue is my thinking.

This pipeline will create jobs FACT, it will take crude and make it into fuels FACT, much of that will be used in North America which includes the U.S. FACT, states will make tax revenue off it FACT, it will lessen the demand for rail car carrying of oils which do we have more car derailments or pipeline leaks annually?

The enviro entail card used to veto this is nothing kore than a ploy by our president to appease his green side friends and congressional people In,ean look at the vote clearly seen as a partisan issue. We want less dependence on foreign pils yet we try and stop a viable plan? Hum OK?

[trappnman]

yes- it means Canada, Mexico, Canada-

not exclusively US- which is all I care aboot.

but even that's bedside that point- "your guy" said nothing about the FUTURE- only about the PRESENT- and its quite obvious, looking at WHERE the refineries ARE AT NOW- why that is true.

as far as jobs- the FACTs:

According to the state department "The State Department, which completed an environmental review of the project Jan. 31, has said the pipeline would create the equivalent of 3,900 full-time construction jobs if it's completed in one year, or 1,950 if it’s done in two years. Once the pipeline is finished, there will be just 50 permanent positions, including 15 for temporary contractors." or to look at it another way- "The State Department's calculation was pretty straightforward. It took the total number of construction workers the project would probably need, multiplied that figure by the overall construction period in weeks for each segment of the proposed pipeline and then divided that by 52 (for the number of weeks in a year)." now TransCanada, says the number of jobs would be higher- more than double BUT (and this is for temporary jobs) but they don't figure based on average hours as the state dept did, but figure each job, no matter if it lasted 1 hour, or 1 year, as a job. but oddly, TransCanada declined to say how many FULL TIME jobs would remain after the pipeline is built. so saying the number of jobs created is low, isn't hype but fact.

yes, I agree- its CLEARLY a partisan issue- too bad we don't have the real facts out there-

oh, wait...we do..

you CAN lead a horse to water, but you can't make him think.....

but for discussion- post your figures for both temp jobs, and permanent jobs.

bottom line- by saying the govt will get more in taxes, or the consumer will get more (or cheaper) gas, is just pie in the sky and backed up by NOTHING but hype

[trappincoyotes39]

The real facts as one side see's it you mean

I was in the area when keystone came and talked Tman. I know the people who tried to get their land into the Faith School distirct for the benefit of that taxation because their kids went to the faith school, why would they spend their time and money if this was false?

South Dakota would gain 20 million per year FACT. The jobs are jobs FACT, one side will say well these jobs aren't enough LOL. Jobs are jobs and money is money into an economy that isn't great.

The school districts with a lift station would gain 100,00's annually Fact!




Notice which state has the lowest unemployment in the nation one looks at why? notice which state is sitting the best as far as a financial standpoint goes?

MYTH: “Keystone XL will only create 35 jobs.”

FACT: Keystone XL will create thousands of jobs.
The claim that Keystone XL will create “35 jobs” is entirely without merit. Our U.S. oil pipeline system supports the creation of over 20,000 jobs in the U.S. – 13,000 construction jobs (9,000 KXL, 4,000 Gulf Coast Project) – work for pipefitters, welders, electricians, heavy equipment operators and more. And 7,000 manufacturing jobs – from the pipe being manufactured in Arkansas, pump motors made in Ohio and transformers built in Pennsylvania, workers in almost every state in the U.S. would benefit. TransCanada has signed binding Project Labor Agreements (PLAs) with all major building trades unions which guarantee TransCanada will have the best and most talented laborers constructing this vital infrastructure project.

The State Department’s own review found that Keystone XL will generate just over 42,000 jobs both directly (employed on the project itself) and induced (as result of the economic stimulus the project will generate). We can demonstrate down to the single job, how many employees we require to build our pipelines.

- See more at: keystone-xl.com/facts/myths-facts/#sthash.iThWiO5A.dpuf

[trappincoyotes39]

Fact also this will be the safest pipeline in the US, far safer than rail travel for such product.

You see this is nothing more than a ploy for the green movement, FACT.

If anyone thinks they can maintain a pipeline of this size with 35 people I say let see your process for doing so? The upkeep and repair will most certainly take more than 35 people and parts will be manufactured for such upkeep the money isn't going to stop upon completion who could think so?

The taxation is by volume not just a one time payment.



their everyday lives. What changes can they expect and where will all the economic benefit go when the pipeline is built?

A policy study issued by the Nebraska-based Platte Institute for Economic Research outlines how Nebraskans will benefit from increased tax revenues and spending stimulus from the construction and first fifteen years of operation of the Keystone XL Pipeline. The study evaluates data from Creighton economist Ernie Goss and the Canadian Energy Research Institute while also reviewing the impact from the construction of the first Keystone pipeline, which had considerable impacts throughout the state.

The study shows that Keystone XL will generate approximately $1.8 billion in economic activity during construction in Nebraska alone. The study also found that Keystone XL will have a substantial tax impact, generating $134.6 million in state and local levies:

$58.6 million in property taxes
$39.1 million in sales taxes
$20.1 million in individual income taxes
$3.3 million dollars in corporate taxes
This is private sector stimulus, not a single tax payer dollar is required to make this shovel-ready project a reality. Keystone XL will inject millions of dollars into state and county budgets that can be used to build roads, fund schools and support other critical infrastructure projects throughout Nebraska. The extra revenue from TransCanada’s existing Keystone Pipeline flowing into Saline County was used to repay $4 million used to build a new school. Additional revenues from Keystone XL would go to funding the construction of a bridge over the Big Blue River, according to Saline County Board of Supervisors Chairman Willis Luedke.

Dennis Houston, president of the Norfolk and Area Chamber of Commerce, testified before Congress stating that:

“Our community has been developing a new industrial highway around our current industrial park as we expand the park itself. This new industrial highway will help Norfolk create and attract additional new jobs. It was funded by Madison County, the City of Norfolk and Stanton County. One million dollars was invested in our economic development infrastructure by Stanton County is a direct result of tax dollars collected by the county for the TransCanada Keystone pipeline pumping station. ”

Other economic impacts for Norfolk County cited by Mr. Houston during his testimony include:

Construction brought 750 new jobs into the area.
During construction, TransCanada became 3rd largest employer in a community of nearly 25,000.
Generated a $10 million economic impact in the Norfolk area during the recession.
This level of economic growth would not have been possible without the original TransCanada Keystone Pipeline running through the Norfolk area.


- See more at: keystone-xl.com/nebraska-will-see-long-term-economic-benefits-from-keystone-xl-oil-pipeline-tax-revenue-transcanada/#sthash.HOli3tm3.dpuf

[trappincoyotes39]

Again ask Norfolk if the money wasn't enough?

Again I know for Faith,SD that tax of 280,000 + for the school district is 1/5 of their annual budget that would help keep property taxation lower in the future for the school district as states and the federal govt wants to shift more of the burden onto local tax payers.

[trappincoyotes39]

But again Our president vetoed this on the claim of environmental never said much if anyhting about lack of jobs or low taxation revenue. HUM?

[PamIsMe]

"..how many employees we require to build our pipelines."


The key word being BUILD, which would be for a couple years. How many permanent jobs would it create?

Pam

[CrossJ]

Feb 28, 2015 17:43:56 GMT -6 PamIsMe said:

"..how many employees we require to build our pipelines."


The key word being BUILD, which would be for a couple years. How many permanent jobs would it create?

Pam

Having been a private welding contractor for 14 years, NONE of the jobs are permanent. We finish, we move on.