new SC ruling

[trappnman]

it is now legal, that if an officer stops you because he thinks he has probable cause, but does not- even though his ignorance of the law gave him false probable cause, it is now a legal stop

GFG

first word Good, 3rd word Grief!

and you think we aren't becoming a police state?

[trappincoyotes39]

Tman because of the word probable cause is about as wide as it gets, take away a legal stop and your opening up a major can of Peres as to what others "think" is either legal or illegal. That definition is about as grey as it gets. Probable cause? What is probable cause and what would not be according to the law?

I would think an officer patrolling a city,county's state or federal road could stop you for many various reasons, or do they need one at all? As as one is agreeing to such when you get a drivers license are they Not?

In the state of South Dakota Game Wardens can enter private ground with probable cause meaning to check for hunting license has been that way for many years, the law states though he would need probable cause to search the parsonage of a property, but not the grounds. This has been fought more than once and upheld. The state , "states" you agree to such with the purchase of a license and so does the landowner allowing hunting.

[trappincoyotes39]

On the flip side if your road hunting pheasants and shoot at a pheasant that resides in the right of way, you do not need landowners permission to retrieve the pheasant without a firearm in hand.

[trappnman]

TC= probable cause isn't a vague term by any means- its a 4th Amendment right.

the right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be searched.

to be stopped and searched, the officer must have probable cause, meaning he believes a crime to have been committed. any traffic infraction meets this criteria.

what this case means, is that is an officer is uninformed, or mistaken about the law- and through this mistake assumes he has probable cause, you can now be pulled over and searched and any results from that stop, are admissionable in court.

just more evidence of the police state we are becoming.

game laws are a whole different issue- wardens do have more power than police in game law infractions

[trappincoyotes39]

Tman the probable cause is very wide open, of everyone who made a lane change without a signal where given a ticket or even a warning then our courts would be back logged for years:) Yet probable cause states a lane change without a signal is enough to warrant stopping and further evaluation of the subject.

Again I have friends in law enforcement and yes many of them game wardens, who have not only game enforcement power but that of other state laws as well. They have a lot of power in many states. probable cause can be an empty 22 casing seen from a window, empty beer can in the vehicle, broken tail light, no being able to see the stickers on a license plate, etc,etc,etc.

probable cause is a loose term giving a wide berth to lawn enforcement in general.

probable cause does not itself lend to the parsonage of a person. meaning you need more to enter my domicile than probable cause, unless you first ask for and acquire a search warrant and the judge shall be the one to judge of enough cause warrants such, but on public roadways and lands it is a far looser term no doubt. There is a reason for such as well. Did a person come to a complete stop at that sign? What is a complete stop? And what did the officer see versus what the driver felt as a complete stop?

[trappnman]

everything you list- IS probable cause- and please leave the wardens out of it as mentioned they have powers that law enforcement does not have

the point is, that probable cause, has always been based on law-

law.

let me repeat that again in case you missed it-

LAW

let me put it into an actual example

if you cross the centerline, you have given the police probable cause to stop you- you did break the law. and of further evidence warrants, you can be searched and even your car

BUT- say that officer decided that anyone going within 3 feet of the centerline, was breaking the law, and he now has probable cause. that is now a legal stop, even though no law exists, and no probable cause of breaking the law, occurred.

don't give up your rights without a fight TC- they are being taken away all the time

when cops start making up laws, they are nothing but bullys and thugs!

and again - PROBABLE CAUSE IS NOT A LOOSE TERM- why not do 4 secs of research so you at least know the law and the facts of the situation.

[trappincoyotes39]

Probable cause is a loose term : Because probable cause is an abstract concept, a firm definition of it is evasive. Courts have to determine case by case whether there is or was probable cause for an arrest.

Probable cause to make a stop and probable cause to have a judge make a ruling on a case is still the same, meaning two different things.

The officer might have thought he had probable cause, evidence and testimony could persuade the judge to throw out the case still.

They still need to convince a judge for a search warrant and good cause must be shown or they will deny such warrant.

Nothing is final until your day in court.

game wardens are law enforcement. My good friend worked the Rally for 16 years as law enforcement for sturgis PD he was a FT game warden outside of this 7 day deal each year. he enforced common laws and made arrest.

[bblwi]

Steve did not say wardens were not law enforcement. What he did say is wardens can and do go onto property w/o permission etc. They can inspect vehicles, buildings freezers etc. without warrants. Our wardens here participate with other law enforcement on several issues that cross boundaries, like hunting trespassing violations, manure spills, DUIs on snowmobiles etc.


Bryce

[trappincoyotes39]

Game wardens cannot. Inspect anything inside your house without a warrant . if your freezer is outside in plain view yes, not inside a dwelling without a warrant. You are still,protected from unlawful search and seizure. Lands and vehicles on said lands different than buildings or residences. That issue has been brought before supreme courts in the past in a few states.

Other law enforcement can inspect vehicles with probable,cause as well. Back to that word probable cause.