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Post by FWS on Aug 19, 2014 14:19:29 GMT -6
Why are cougars appearing all across the Portland area? Reasons could include deer, development In this AP file photo, Shanti the 2-year-old cougar licks the ice at his habitat at Oatland Island Wildlife Center in Savannah, Ga., on July 2, 2014. (The Associated Press)Luke Hammill The Oregonian July 25, 2014 Cougar sightings are "rare," according to the Oregon Department of Fish and Wildlife. But the big cats have been spotted in five metro-area cities in the past month, including two locations in Hillsboro. City parks have been closed, and a cougar found July 4 in Northeast Portland was euthanized by state wildlife officials, who said the animal had "lost its fear of people" and could have preyed on neighborhood cats and dogs. Hillsboro's Rood Bridge Park was closed Wednesday morning after three such reports starting Tuesday evening. City spokesman Patrick Preston said it would remain closed until Thursday morning, at which time Parks & Recreation officials will re-evaluate. ODFW has been asked to assist, but the department could not do so immediately, and the rain would have made a search difficult, Preston said. In late June, Hillsboro's Jackson Bottom Wetlands Preserve was closed twice in a week after "credible" cougar sightings. Though city and state officials never located the animal, one Hillsboro resident told The Oregonian that the animal got within 30 feet of her on a preserve trail, close enough for her to "count the whiskers" on its face. Reported cougar sightings also came in this month from Happy Valley, West Linn and Oregon City. The state is home to more than 5,000 of the animals, also known as mountain lions, according to ODFW. Dana Sanchez, a wildlife extension specialist at Oregon State University, said cougars may be moving into the Portland area because of a possible increase in deer and other animals the cats prey upon. "Cougars are large, mobile predators," Sanchez said. "They generally prey on deer, but where deer and other food becomes available, cougars – especially the younger, dispersing animals – will explore for other opportunities." She added that cougars are territorial and protective, so younger ones often have to find their own home ranges once they become "sub-adults." "And quite often, the established adults already have the best places," Sanchez said. Don Whittaker, of the ODFW wildlife division, said "the area surrounding the Portland-metro area and the suburbs is good cougar habitat." "Cougar populations are healthy, and the lifestyle choices that make quality of life in the Portland area good also create avenues for animals to come into the cities," he said, referring to the extensive forests and trails that lead directly into urban zones. But Whittaker cautioned that some of the reported "sightings" might not be cougars at all. "There's corridors to and from the wild areas, and there's been a lot of attention in the public media that large carnivores have been in the city," he said. "And so people are aware and have been looking for things like that sometimes. Sometimes they're real, sometimes they're not." The state Fish and Wildlife website has a section devoted to "living with wildlife," which includes a page about cougars. If you encounter one, the guidelines say, do not run, maintain direct eye contact and stand your ground –- and then back away slowly. Cougars often will retreat if given the opportunity, according to the agency. Sanchez said area residents would do best to familiarize themselves with the guidelines, which include keeping pets indoors at dawn and dusk. "I think that people do need to start becoming aware that those animals might be in the areas that they're using, especially in the more open, park-like areas," she said. Another reason mountain lions could be appearing more often, Sanchez said, is increased development. "Our cities and towns keep expanding," she said. "As we go into those last patches where deer and cougars might be living … we're going to be more likely to potentially see them and encounter them."
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Post by FWS on Aug 19, 2014 14:35:20 GMT -6
Yup, there is a large and connected mass of lands that serve as refugia for lions so no surprise that lions disperse into the 'metro' area, which is really more like a big suburb with all kinds of natural corridors that lions would use.
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Aug 19, 2014 18:08:30 GMT -6
Those lions are migrating from California had the same issues around houses in the black hills and the policy was to end that lion as once the fear is gone they are gone. I know a guy that had a few big horn sheep in his back yard west of rapid city loved to watch them out his patio door, mt lion came down and took one right in his back yard. cats and dogs make easy food for a mt lion.
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Post by FWS on Aug 19, 2014 18:49:02 GMT -6
Most likely not the Portland region lions, but NorCal and So. OR lions are really the same population and it might be more that OR lions disperse into CA. As the genetic data suggests with NV lions dispersing into CA. If we look at a satellite pic, a wildfire map just cuz it was handy, you'll notice there are no barriers that would prevent that, natural or man made. And in fact it's pretty much all lion habitat that goes from the Columbia River and South to the SF Bay Area, East to and into NV. And lions have been observed swimming across the Columbia River, I've seen em' swimming across a lake to get to the deer filled island. So................. Thing is that the Black Hills are 8000+ sq.mi., just the NorCal county I live in is 4000 sq.mi. and 90+% of it is mountain lion habitat, they even cruise the beaches. And what is lion habitat that IS occupied by lions is the mega area I described above. So we have this large contiguous lion factory that crosses multiple state boundaries, rather than the isolated population in a small geographic area like the Black Hills. So things are a bit more difficult. It's the same here and in OR.
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Aug 21, 2014 4:49:12 GMT -6
Not difficult have a hunting season and allow a harvest of mt lions. Yes I know the size of the black hills and I also know lions move out from the hills in a general Nw direction and a few travel along the Cheyenne river and head east south east as well. Yet SD chooses to keep numbers in check by allowing an annual harvest of mt lions to take place. The black hills is pretty much all mt lion habitat as well. hence the reason the entire hills is open to hunting.
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Post by FWS on Aug 21, 2014 8:21:57 GMT -6
Sure it is. Even more difficult to keep all of the types of harvest available.
Which may be possible in such a small, isolated geographic area. But even with bounties, year round seasons on lions, and gov. efforts, I don't think they ever 'kept the numbers in check' in CA, OR, WA, NV, AZ............ Too much habitat representing too much refugia that just keeps pumping out lions.
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Post by trappnman on Aug 21, 2014 11:06:20 GMT -6
whats difficult holding a season?
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Aug 21, 2014 16:40:31 GMT -6
FWS mt lions being a feline species and their makeup they sure could be harvested at levels that would show suppression of the population, even in the state of California, I feel you are throwing out red herrings to justify why your state has no such seasons? You talk about all the public lands and large tracks that would be great for dog hunters, trapping oh wait not allowed , calling is a very effective technique, snaring as well. In some states mt lions are seen as a trophy species and outfitters offer such services to hunters as well. In Montana they harvested 636 mt lions in 2012. Mt lions harvest for reduced numbers mean taking out younger lions which many are and knowing that many do not reach sexual maturity until about 2 years of age could play into reducing the numbers. WS could have an impact as well as hunters if allowed more freedom to do such. I would bet in California if a season where set you could get 600-700 mt lions harvested each year. So given California has half the state as mt lion habitat and 4,000- 6,000 my lions estimated one could get a 10-15 percent reduction in population and I bet higher if more liberial seasons and methods of take where applied. yet won't happen because of prop 117 which passed almost 25 years ago
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Aug 21, 2014 16:43:19 GMT -6
FWIW I find prop 117 to be one of the most silliest things ever enacted under the guise of wildlife conservation To take a top shelf predator and protect him for life Good grief then you wonder why I have little interest in the state of California?
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Post by FWS on Aug 21, 2014 19:27:28 GMT -6
No, it's just an honest look at the issue.
Only a part of that is actually accessible, much of it is not for trapping and hounds. So we can hunt and trap the peripheries, the rest of it is refugia.
Maybe 1/3rd of that realistically, there are many other issues you aren't really aware of, property ownership and access being one of them.
And exactly what would the rationale be to do the control you advocate ? Boost deer numbers ? You'd need to look at habitat issues and moisture first since those are the real limiting factors in CA deer populations, predation plays a role but isn't as important as the 2 I mentioned. Add in things like hair loss syndrome from the Asian deer louse.
But hey I've only lived and hunted here for over 40 years.................
That's why we fought it tooth and nail, and damn near beat it in 1990 with a shoestring budget, and got it back on the ballot in 1996 only to lose again. Never got much help from out of state groups BTW, unlike how it is with the antis throwing millions of $$$'s at these issues.
But 117 isn't alone in your assertion given the Marine Mammal Protection Act, Wild and Free-Roaming Horses and Burros Act of 1971, what the ESA has become, and so on. Just consider that your own Federal legislators have made bad decisions just like the voters did in CA, AZ, CO, OR, WA, and other states on wildlife mggmt. issues.
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Post by FWS on Aug 22, 2014 2:20:42 GMT -6
Politics............. Why doesn't MN allow nonresident trapping ? And why was there ever a problem with lynx bycatch in MN, couldn't you have waved a magic wand and fixed all of that ? Did you notice the huge effort it took to get a wolf season in MN and elsewhere in the Lower 48 ?
To overturn CA's prop 117 would require a 4/5th's majority vote of both houses of the state legislature and the Govs. signature, or another ballot measure designed to do so that the voters would approve.
You got 5 or 6 Million $$$$$'s handy to throw at that effort ?
SCI is challenging the provision of 117 in Federal court that bars importation of mountain lion trophies. They've tried before, maybe they'll succeed this time.
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Aug 22, 2014 4:29:42 GMT -6
FWS what do you think 4,000- 6,000 mt lions consume in a years time? generally when a population suffers a noticeable loss of recruitment it is a compounding of issues not just one. Generally ........... I know for a fact that mt lions have caused issues with Elk and deer populations in the he black hills, they eat just like other mt lions eat, Montana has the same issues etc,
To say that many mt lions doesn't have a negative effect on deer recruitment I feel is false.
South Dakota quota system is up to 75 or 50 females which ever comes first. Yet California as a whole would only get a 200 cat harvest if a season where employed? Hum.
I know about access and private lands as that is the one reason NO dog hunting in the black hills due to the checker board land ownership inside the fire protection district yet they still have no issues hitting the quota each year, two primary methods calling and spot hunting during big game seasons get the harvest in SD.
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Post by FWS on Aug 22, 2014 9:25:10 GMT -6
I never said that it didn't, I'm just pointing out that there are other factors that have a much larger influence, as I pointed out in previous threads on this subject. CA's deer population was at high levels in the past as a result of large scale disturbances to the habitat that created the early early successional vegetation that favors deer. And that was at a time when lions were bountied, had an open season year round, and the govt. was engaged in control efforts. Thing is that looking at their take of lions, it wasn't that high. And the likelihood is that the lion population was seriously underestimated back then and was probably closer to what we think it may be now. I see this in deer populations regionally here, big disturbance in habitat, ie fire, that creates the early successional vegetation and the deer population increases, even in areas with high lion densities. So again, when we argue this to the legislature or the voters exactly what is the science based rationale for the large scale lion control efforts you outline ? Whaaaaaaaaaaattttttt !!!!!!!!! The most effective method of hunting lions is not allowed !!!!!!!! How can that be in SD !!!!! Out here we'd need the hounds, since the habitat and terrain is very different. There might be an initial bump in the statewide harvest but I doubt that would be sustained. We've talked about this a lot for years out here BTW.
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Post by trappnman on Aug 22, 2014 10:16:42 GMT -6
can't the deer just drink out of the ocean....... :>)
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Post by FWS on Aug 22, 2014 11:05:47 GMT -6
Not directly from the ocean, but they do drink from the small pools left from the fog/marine layer, and you do find them literally on the beaches browsing on marine algae such as kelp. And you'll find lion tracks on the beaches. Black bears scavenge along the beaches a lot, and historically the grizzlies in CA scavenged beached carcasses of whales and seals/sea lions and hunted seals/sea lions, they still do in AK, BC, Kamchatka. Coyotes and foxes are on the beaches scavenging as well, and coyotes take harbor seal pups from the rookeries. And bobcats hunt the beaches too since the grasses hold bunnies and there are a lot of birds.
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Aug 22, 2014 14:41:02 GMT -6
Science based rational is there in other top of the chain predator species. it isn't about the harvest taken but the drop off of depredation caused because of the harvest. You see people want to look at the harvest and divide control efforts by numbers killed, One is better off seeing the impact from the timely removal of such predators and he amount of dollars saved be it wildlife, livestock etc. The putting out fires is far less productive than preventing them to a higher degree in the first part! There is your science and the numbers are there to show that controlling any large predator has great merit and is far better than a protectionist attitude any day, when dealing with these types of issues. Same thing with the black tailed prairie dog, they would have had less kill rate if we could have done business as usual versus a moratorium on NO killing for period of years and then we went in and did blanket poisoning of dog towns that grew 300-400 percent during the NO KILL period . That science will now show that allowing these critters a time frame of NO control is actually counter productive to the health and well being of entire dog towns.
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Post by FWS on Aug 22, 2014 15:18:32 GMT -6
You'd have to be a lot more specific about the reasons and benefits to this. Because holes can be blasted through your hypothesis, which I've seen done repeatedly on this issue.
Doesn't mean we shouldn't be hunting lions here, just don't claim it to be THE solution to issues that are a lot more complex.
It's quite a bit more complex than that, and in some cases we're better off to let it burn since that is part of the cycle in the habitats we have here. Fire is one of the management tools we should be using a lot more, along with timber harvest, discing, etc.
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Aug 22, 2014 20:49:11 GMT -6
FWS not fires in the literal sense What I talk about has data to back it up with, so yes it is science the data proves many things, like the GIS we had on how prairie dog towns increased in size during years of moratorium on those dog towns and how killing them back to create buffers makes sense and limits expansion just one tool to do such. Without those buffers things like plague spreads much faster and in turn creates more issues than the selective control of those dog towns. The US forest service took a stance of zero dog control and paid many times over for that decision, theirs not based on science but attitudes of a small minority.......... The list goes on with data on many things.
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