Religion and Hobby Lobby win with SCOTUS'

[trappincoyotes39]

The Supreme Court ruled today that the healthcare mandate for contraceptives cannot be forced upon owners of companies who have religious beliefs against such!

In a narrowly-defined decision, the United States Supreme Court ruled that Hobby Lobby cannot be forced by the HHS Mandate to provide certain medicines/services to its employees that violate the religious beliefs of its owners. We will need to watch for more information and analysis as the day progresses as to what this means for Hobby Lobby and other employers.

A common sense ruling for people of religion and private business.

[trappincoyotes39]

A new and exciting twist that the court took a side in favor of private business and the religious freedoms they too are protected under our constitution and there fore cannot be mandated to cover something their religion does not believe in. Guessing more suits will follow by many other companies than just the two listed.

This was a major win for religious freedoms in our country today and also private religious based business against govt mandates.

[trappnman]

are you kidding me a good decision? same court that says corporations are people, same court that eliminated limits on campaign finances

many religions believe in zero health care- if I was a business owner, I'd convert tomorrow.

what a step backwards!

[trappnman]

interesting point I just saw- on my local FOX news - if Hobby Lobby is so concerned with the bible, and if birth control is so important to their religious beliefs, why then is most of their inventory manufactored in, and purchased from- China?

the nation with the strictest laws on birth control and sterilization.

the hypocrisy of it all!

$$$$$- the qualifier for Hobby Lobby on both ends of the world

[FWS]

and if birth control is so important to their religious beliefs, why then is most of their inventory manufactored in, and purchased from- China?


Funny how that works isn't it

the nation with the strictest laws on birth control and sterilization.

A one child only policy with forced abortions..............

But none of that has ever stopped even the most stridently religious trappers from selling the fur to the Chinese.

Christians Call Out Hobby Lobby For Hypocrisy

Kim Bhasin
Huffington Post
07/01/2014



The arts and crafts retailer Hobby Lobby proudly touts itself as a Christian company that puts people over profits. However, some staunch Christians say there's a gaping hole in that claim -- namely, China.

Products bearing "Made in China" labels are found all over the shelves at Hobby Lobby, evidence that some of its wares come from Chinese factories that have a reputation for labor rights violations and rock-bottom wages. Employees at these facilities often end up working grueling hours in prison-like conditions and never earn enough to escape poverty.

"You cannot call your business 'Christian' when arguing before the Supreme Court, and then set aside Christian values when you're placing a bulk order for cheap wind chimes," wrote Christian author and columnist Jonathan Merritt in a recent article for The Week.

Hobby Lobby remains quiet about its dealings in China. The company did not respond to requests for a list of Chinese factories it does business with, and did not provide information about what percentage of its merchandise comes from China.

Then there's China's controversial record on abortion. The country's one-child policy was slightly relaxed in 2013, but the family planning bureaucracy still exists. Since the government instituted the policy 40 years ago, there have been more than 330 million abortions in China, according to health ministry data cited by the Financial Times. Though fewer instances of forced abortion, infanticide and involuntary sterilization now occur because they're banned by the government, they still happen, The Washington Post reported last year.

This week, Hobby Lobby's crusade against contraceptives scored it a victory in the U.S. Supreme Court. On Monday, the court ruled 5-4 that so-called "closely held corporations" don't have to provide certain kinds of contraception for employees.

"Being Christians, we don't pay for drugs that might cause abortions, which means that we don't cover emergency contraception, the morning-after pill or the week-after pill," Hobby Lobby founder and CEO David Green wrote in an open letter in 2013. "We believe doing so might end a life after the moment of conception, something that is contrary to our most important beliefs."

Yet the company is happy to profit from the business it does with China, critics argue, even though political conditions in that country have led to hundreds of millions of abortions.

Leslie Marshall, a radio host and self-described born-again Christian, questioned Hobby Lobby's policies in a column for U.S. News & World Report in March, invoking the teachings of the "guy who started all of this."

"As they say: What would Jesus do?" wrote Marshall. "He would remind Hobby Lobby that 'he that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone.' Hobby Lobby should put its stones down."

In a 2013 blog post, Matt Chambers, the director of a non-governmental organization called SafeWorld, similarly wrote that he disapproved of Hobby Lobby's relationship with China for religious reasons.

"You see, when it comes carrying high the banner of 'Biblical principles', I believe a company who wanted that to be their public persona would be extra careful to NEVER do business with the very people who go against everything they claim to fight for as Christians," Chambers wrote, according to The Christian Post.

Other Christian columnists, including The Christian Post's Josh Stonestreet, have come out in defense of Hobby Lobby, saying that working with Chinese manufacturers is different from working with the Chinese government.

"Doing business in a place where evil exists is not the same as directly supporting that evil," wrote Stonestreet. "In fact, it may even be a force for good!"

Hobby Lobby has remained largely silent on the issue, but in a column in the Rutland (Vermont) Herald in March, Peter Dobelbower, the company's vice president and chief legal officer, provided some insight into Hobby Lobby's rationale for buying products made abroad: Those factories can't control what their governments do, so it's OK.

"Our company sources from suppliers around the world," Dobelbower wrote in response to an earlier op-ed, calling for a boycott, that had appeared in the same paper. "Virtually all Hobby Lobby's vendors are small entrepreneurial businesses without control over their government's abortion policies."

[trappincoyotes39]

You do relise they need to make a print correct? . Sorry guys but nice front is all this china talk is. For what they sell and be at a price point that keeps them in business along with all others in the same business china made goods well are mandatory.

So now every religious person must boycott all things made in China? Good grief........ They can take there profits and spread the good word in that form and help others with jobs and put food on the table for their American raised kids.

Hobby lobby is closed on Sundays which is a rare deal these days but conforms to their beliefs or they would be open. same with chick filet. They to are closed on Sundays.

You oh see it as a step back ward I see it as a step forward that our federal govt can not run all over those with religious beliefs and also to take notice of private held business with regards to their religon and what protections the constituion offers them.

China's form of govt goes against what all Americans stand for so why would anyone buy anything labeled made in China then? Let's have a 100 percent boycott on all Chineese made goods, where would the IS be then?

[trappnman]

yes why would they TC- unless $$$$$ trumps beliefs

which is exactly the case here

all one has to do, is compare their press releases, to reality

Kind of like the Mormans selling coffee, tea and sodas at places like the Polynesian Village

to my detriment, I've never let money stand in the way of my beliefs- never.

[bblwi]

Buying from a nation that promotes abortion, birth control and gender inequality is a big deal if your belief system has anything to do with principle versus politics. If the owners are that against public aspects of our nation why don't they build their own roads and infrastructure instead of relying on taxpayers to help subsidize their belief system. Principles of convenience are not principles at all in my book. I wonder why they really want to buy from a non Christian based culture in the first place. They could create a lot of USA jobs making that stuff here instead of just shuffling the merchandize and creating a small rollover. Also the idea of closing on Sundays may sound very religious based but with a large percentage of our population having work hours that don't fit the norms of the past they are denying a lot of people their right to buy when it works for their schedule. They are working on creating bankers, and doctors type schedules that may cause persons to use limited work week time to utilize their services.
Firms and individuals can choose to run their lives and businesses as they choose in our nation. I for one will avoid their stores not because of their beliefs but the arrogance demonstrated by their supporters in basically mocking government and those they may feel are more heathen then they are.

Bryce

[trappincoyotes39]

This buying is a big deal is a red herring nothing more. make their own ? LOL. You expect them to compete by paying many times more on items that are priced in a,lower range to begin with? Like it or not we are ALL IN on Chinese goods have been for many years.

Any of you who think this is A big deal do you boycott china and its goods? I can tell you in this day and age for many things very hard to do if one has a budget.

They put many Americans to work that is the bottom line, every time they open a new store they put more people to work in the store and building such new stores.

If they boycotted china then what? then they should research any supplier and those that think abortion is ok, they do no business with? Get real.

The point is the owners do not believe in abortion and that is their right and freedom to believe in such and the COURT ruled they have that right. Now people can shoes to work for them or not and people can choose to shop there or not. people have choices and the court decided the owners have the choice by their religion to not follow a mandate put enforce by our govt that they must cover birth control, their right of religious belief has been upheld by the high court.

Not mocking nothing Bryce , they allowed the court to decide and they have spoken this time those that are mad think the court did wrong, happens all the time not everyone agrees on the high courts rulings, but this time small business and religious rights have been upheld I am happy for that, no arrogance but just that the court made the proper ruling in my mind and millions of others.

[trappincoyotes39]

The owner also donates a lot of money to charities he sees fit and also gives schools, churches and other non profits a 10 percent discount at all of his stores,

[RShaw]

Here is a list of pharmacies offering birth control for $9 per month without any insurance. Now who could afford that???

Kroger:
Kroger Generic Drug List and Kroger Store Locator
Sprintec or Trinessa: $9/month or $24/3 months
Price may higher in CA, MN, WY

Target:
Target Generic Drug List (under women’s health) and Target Store Locator
Sprintec or Tri-sprintec: $9/month
Price may be higher in CA, MN, MT, PA, RI, TN, WI, and WY.

Wal-Mart:
Wal-Mart Generic Drug List (under women’s health) and Wal-Mart Store Locator
Sprintec or Tri-sprintec $9/month
Price may be higher in CA, HI, MN, MT, PA, TN, WI, and WY.

Sam’s Club
Sam’s Club Generic Drug List and Sam’s Club Store Locator
Sprintec or Tri-sprintec: $9/month
Price may be higher in CA, HI, MN, MT, PA, TN, WI, and WY.
_________________________

[trappincoyotes39]

Also Rshaw many can go to planned parent hood and many pay nothing what so ever and other orgs that give out free pills or greatly reduced price based on income. Nothing more than our govt trying to be heavy handed on people. This time the people won again a good thing IMO.

[thorsmightyhammer]

Meh.

I'd file it under who cares.

[bblwi]

I don't believe the court did wrong, the court made a decision. You must have seen different clips of the response than I did. Mocking our government is being kind in some respects. So he donates, so don't millions of others and many companies offer more savings in script than 10% so I would not hold them on some high charitable pedestal and what about those who work there and their limitations as to health care. My concern is what company will be next with a stem cell deal, or type 2 diabetes because the person became too overweight etc. This is written in a narrow scope for now but English tort law has a way or really expanding single verdicts widely. We may wind up with public health care down the road being the only one that won't use health care benefits as a leverage and screening system.

Bryce

[trappincoyotes39]

Tman they would not be in the business they are in if everything was bought from vendors that had their same beliefs down to a "T". They would be undercut by their competitors and the people they employe would be no longer employed. They can have their belief system and not have to become the worlds watch dog on any issue including abortion. They have said they want to have the right to choose what they cover with their employees because of their beliefs.

They are closed on Sundays because of their beliefs they aren't asking others to close, they give money to religious groups not asking others to do the same, they live their lives as Christians and want their belief system to be noted when it comes to choices for their employees.

Again the china deal is a red herring on many counts I could name, without money and profit they have no hobby lobby and no jobs easy to see. many of he products made and sold in that line of merchandise is made in china and you do not have any other choices period. They own the market in certain areas of much business. Higher people at 10-12 per hour and make things versus your competition buying china made items and selling them for 30-40 percent less? In the business world things need to make business sense no matter what your personnel beliefs are, or your out of business fast.

if you had 1,000's of people relying on you as a business owner you would find yourself making concessions at times or at least I would hope for the betterment of your employees to keep them employed.

[Jarhead620]

The Supreme Court is more about ideology than about upholding the Constitution. If that were not true 5-4 decisions would be a rarity instead of the common result that they have become.

TC, do you believe the breadth of the decision has been narrowed suffiently to prevent absurd applications expressing all manner of "religeous" beliefs of owners of privately held corporations? Or do you believe that such entities should be exempted from any law that they claim violates their "religeous" beliefs. You really should read Justice Ginsberg's dissent before you decide.

Jarhead

[RShaw]

Take religion out of the picture and you have Hobby Lobby denying 3 drugs that destroy an embryo. In other words, they are not supporting abortion. My morals tell me that abortion is murder, pure and simple, so I am happy with the decision because it supports my beliefs. For those of you who disagree, I imagine the unborn baby would beg for his life if he could speak. Why is abortion legal,but the murder of a pregnant woman is considered a double homicide? I await the rebuttal from The Wizard of Cali.

[trappincoyotes39]

Jarhead narrowed in scope sure but for so called mainstream religion it is a win and also a small win for those that don't agree with abortion. I would like to think they uphold the constitution makes me feel better about our high court but sadly you hit the nail on the head with your comment, yet I Would hope they do think of the constitution to some degree and not just their political leanings.

[FWS]

I await the rebuttal from The Wizard of Cali.

Your statement is false,

Take religion out of the picture and you have Hobby Lobby denying 3 drugs that destroy an embryo.

You can't take your religious beliefs out of it for the simple fact that they govern your beliefs on this, what you are claiming is an 'embryo' is not yet an embryo, which is a scientific term which is not subjective.

Nor are the 3 birth control methods at issue in this case capable of destroying an embryo, they are designed to prevent fertilization.

The science of it does not support your beliefs otherwise, nor does it support the beliefs of the Greene family that owns Hobby Lobby. Those 3 birth control methods do not, scientifically, constitute abortion.

[PamIsMe]

"Why is abortion legal, but the murder of a pregnant woman is considered a double homicide?"

Depends on what states religious zealot anti-choice politics speak the loudest.
In some states, legislation has increased the criminal penalties for crimes involving pregnant women. These laws have focused on the harm done to a pregnant woman and the subsequent loss of her pregnancy, but not on the rights of the fetus.

All of them have exceptions for legal abortion. The main difference being the Mother's control or lack of it.

Pam