response to urine

[musher]

I have seen critters respond to urine in two ways. The first way is for the animal to urinate on the urine. The second way is for the animal to roll on the urine.

I always thought that it was better for the furbearer to urinate on the urine. I am afraid that a rolling response could cause a snapped trap. The animal remarking the set causes more footwork therefore a greater chance of stepping on the pan. However, the animal always gives the trapper placed urine a good sniff prior to rolling - so, theoritically, the animal should be caught before it gets the notion to roll.

This would mean that the criteria for good urine isn't whether it causes a pee or roll response but rather good urine is urine that causes the animal to investigate the set.

Any thoughts?

[coonwhacker]

It is well known that canines like to roll in a skunk type odor. It is also well known that alot of urines have a little skunk essence in it to make it a little more attractive. maybe the rolling is from the skunk essence in the urine. myabe I am wrong, I never asked a canine nor did I ever see one thet could talk.

mike

[trappnman]

musher- I respect your opinion and your conclusions.

I heavily mist all my remake sets and have never had a problem or a concern with rolling on the sets.

[musher]

I didn't know about the rolling response to skunk smell. (Hey - a fella can always learn!). I always wondered if the rolling response to urine was caused by tainted food being in the urine due to an inadequate collection system. I do know about the love of canids rolling in rotten meat.

Will they roll where a skunk sprayed or is it only in "mild" skunk smell?

[jsevering]

Musher,
notice the shoulder roll response, mostly with domestic dogs and coyote urine, always felt myself that it was a submisive responce by the domestic as they didnt urinate after rolling, but wanted to wear the coyote urine, at least the ones I watched. Whats your feelings? ..jim

[musher]

I haven't played with 'yote urine. I was always told that the roll response on carrion was a desire to mask the predators scent from its prey. It never sat well with me. I don't think the smell of rotting meat approaching is going to sooth the nerves of prey. I think the rolling response is a way for a canid to make itself more "likeable" to others of their kind.

I have rarely seen dogs roll on urine. When it does happen it usually is the consequence of a female in heat. Most often "in heat" urine simply produces a male dog (with a foolish look) popping teeth, scenting, as well as licking the ground/scent. They then mark the spot with lots of tail and scratching.

A dog that is truly submissive does not mark another spot. It will dribble away, tail down as it leaves the spot.

Never noticed if they pee after rolling. As soon as I see 'em roll I yell at them to stop!

[Stef]

Yes musher, if they roll, they will pee for sure when they're done with their rolling.

Stef

[jsevering]

Always thought so myself stef, the one dog I watched was my female choclate lab, the other was a niegbors nutered husky mix.
dont know if that has anything to do with the response or not...jim

[Wackyquacker]

Trappnman, who some times mascarades as Gappa, says: (I can't find the dang quote button)

"I heavily mist all my remake sets and have never had a problem or a concern with rolling on the sets."

I wonder why? A remake at a yote set smells so of urine it makes me want TO! Or are you referring to remakes from non- targets?

I often remake a yote catch and re-lure with a strong Cat Gland Lure...seems to focus the next one to "The Spot".

[trappnman]

WQ- No- I mean all remakes- no matter what was caught in them. Why> dirty trap.

As I have mentioned before- the incidental rate in farm country is USUALLY much higher than elsewhere. Coon are the biggest culprit in regards to shining up a trap- but possum, skunks, and canines also take their toll.

If I replaced every trap after a catch- I'd be replacing a lot of traps every day. I don't have the traps or the time.

Some years ago- I had a heck of a time catching coyotes in remakes. In desperation, I started spraying the whole set- that is, the walkthrough part of the set with urine (I usually use fox during season) . Started catching coyotes at the remakes.

After several years- I read where this wasn't the right thing to do, that this much urine was wrong. Well, ok then- I had gained some experience and figured with my new found experience, I didn't need to do this.

My remakes catch dropped- like right now.

So I started misting again. Remakes went back to normal.

Coincidence? Had to be. So I stopped remaking sets with misted urine the next season in mid season- and again, the remake catches of coyotes dropped.

I'm slow at times- but I could see the pattern very clearly. Mist remakes= coyotes. Unmisted remakes= few coyotes. So since then, I mist all my remakes.

Then a few years ago when I found the internet and started talking to other coyote trappers and one of them (stef) sent me a copy of Hoofbeats to read. Much to my delight (and surprise) I found O'Gorman also misted at remakes during humid or rainy weather- in fact, he said he often used a gal to 60 sets or so in wet weather.

And I found Bill Nelson used A LOT of urine at EVERY set, as does Johhny Thorpe.

So its always nice to see that something you figured out independently is validated by some pretty good trappers- for much the same reasons.

Do all areas need to mist? Apparently not. Yet I read time after time where trappers have no success with remakes. They state that they can catch coyotes, but not at remakes. My advice to them- try misting.

So thats why I do it. For me, here, remakes work good when I mist, work a lot less when I don't.
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I also am of the belief that urine is for all practical pupose urine- that is- it doesn't matter what kind it is- after a few hours, days, what ever- it all smells about the same to a coyote. Johhny Thorpe uses nothing but cow urine at his canine sets.

I do believe that there is a difference in QUALITY of collected urine- and that impure urine (containing feces, food, additives) makes a differnce in response- but thats just a theory based on the difference in "smell" I have noticed from different suppliers. So to that end, I now use 100% urine collected by Magnum (Bob Wendt) in his pens.

[dj88ryr]

I use a LOT of urine also, and arrived at this technique much the same way you did Steve. I do mist even the new sets, I mist the trap bed after excavation of bed, mist again when trap is covered, and then mist the whole area including where I kneeled before leaving the set. I takes a lot of urine, but urine is cheap compared to empty traps ;D

[Wackyquacker]

Thanks Steve, or I mean T-man, for the thorough explination. Some day I'll have to try it also...maybe tomorrow.