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Post by FWS on Nov 19, 2012 0:46:24 GMT -6
NM coyote hunters banned from state, fed landKFDA Nov 16, 2012 ALBUQUERQUE, N.M. (AP) - Participants in a coyote hunting contest in New Mexico this weekend won't be allowed to shoot coyotes on federal or state land. New Mexico Land Commissioner Ray Powell told Mark Chavez, the owner of the Los Lunas-based Gunhawk Firearms, that a permit or lease is needed for commercial use of the state lands and none has been issued. He said anyone participating in the contest on state land will be considered a trespasser. The U.S. Bureau of Land Management has also sent Chavez a letter to say that hunting won't be allowed on its land. Chavez said the 2-day hunt, scheduled to start Saturday, will take place on private land across the state. He says 60 teams have already signed up. The winner gets a shotgun or two AR-15 rifles. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Commercial coyote hunters banned from state landThe Associated Press 11/16/2012 SANTA FE, N.M.—New Mexico's state land commissioner says participants in a commercial coyote killing contest run by a gun store in Los Lunas won't be allowed to use state trust land. Commissioner Ray Powell says in a letter to the owner of Gunhawk Firearms that a permit or lease is needed for commercial use of the state lands and none has been issued. The letter obtained by the Santa Fe New Mexican ( bit.ly/QLFIZw) on Thursday says anyone participating in the hunt who kills coyotes on state land will be considered a trespasser. Powell says the contest set for Saturday and Sunday is about personal profit and animal cruelty and he believes the practice should be outlawed. The State Land Office administers 13 million acres of trust land across New Mexico.
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Post by blackhammer on Nov 19, 2012 6:45:33 GMT -6
Commissoner Powell is just another spineless animal rights enabler.. Hope a coyote eats his whole family. lol This shows the way this country is going. A guy is lucky he was born when he was. The future for young and upcoming trappers is indeed bleak.
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Post by thebeav2 on Nov 19, 2012 10:53:02 GMT -6
So If your just hunting coyotes for sh its and giggles you don't need a permit.
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Post by FWS on Nov 19, 2012 11:33:18 GMT -6
Nope, no permit needed because hunting and trapping are considered recreational.
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Nov 19, 2012 20:15:01 GMT -6
FWS I don't know how legal BLM is such a statement? The hunters aren't pro's and the contest is not being "held" on BLM just people hunting trying to take as many coyotes as they can, no different than any other day. To state this is a contest is not all correct, as the hunters might be in a contest but the contest is not taking it's place only on BLM.
Would be like saying your buck isn't elegiable for the BIG Buck contest that pays either prizes or money of shot on BLM.
Another curve to throw as well, some paid to hunts have gotten permits to hunt paid hunters on BLM ground where is the differance? There is none and would be a strong basis for a lawsuit. Saying and doing 2 far different things.
I also know plenty of guys that have hunted BLM for coyote contest. Nothing ever said.
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Post by FWS on Nov 20, 2012 0:41:32 GMT -6
It's legal, and they are just enforcing the laws, likely due to someone demanding they enforce the law. The 'nothing ever said' scenario is likely because no one made an issue of it before, they will now though.
BLM and the USFS have similar policies on requiring permits for commercial type contests or organized recreational events,
From the USFS, just a primer, there's a lot more but you'll get the idea,
A permit is required for any commercial activity defined as: any use or activity on National Forest System lands (a) where an entry or participation fee is charged, or (b) where the primary purpose is the sale of a good or service, and in either case, regardless of whether the use or activity is intended to produce a profit . Special use permits are issued at the local Ranger District office. Basic requirements for holding a permit include technical and financial capability, payment of a fee, and insurance listing the US Government as additionally insured.
So clearly this contest would fit the definition of a commercial event. Were it a recreation event with no entry fee, prizes, or payout it would still need a permit.
Recreation Event – Types of activities that require a recreation event special use permit include, but are not limited to, competitive races, contests, fund raisers, eco-challenges, dog trails, club activities, adventure games and endurance races. If you or your organization is considering holding such an event on the National Forest, you must contact your local Ranger District well in advance of the scheduled event to determine whether a permit is available.
And the activity has to be included in the management plan, which is periodically reviewed, and opened for public comment, can be subject to legal action, etc, etc. Just to start.
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Nov 20, 2012 5:30:14 GMT -6
Nah, plenty of guys will continue to hunt BLM and be entered in a contest with little worries. It won't be like they will ask everyone on BLM land hunting coyotes? are you in a contest? Some guys travel 40-50 miles to hunt BLM ground to call coyotes, so far removed.
Trying to makes this all fit is a stretch, sorry just is.
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Post by blackhammer on Nov 20, 2012 6:38:49 GMT -6
It's legal, and they are just enforcing the laws, likely due to someone demanding they enforce the law. The 'nothing ever said' scenario is likely because no one made an issue of it before, they will now though. BLM and the USFS have similar policies on requiring permits for commercial type contests or organized recreational events, From the USFS, just a primer, there's a lot more but you'll get the idea, A permit is required for any commercial activity defined as: any use or activity on National Forest System lands (a) where an entry or participation fee is charged, or (b) where the primary purpose is the sale of a good or service, and in either case, regardless of whether the use or activity is intended to produce a profit . Special use permits are issued at the local Ranger District office. Basic requirements for holding a permit include technical and financial capability, payment of a fee, and insurance listing the US Government as additionally insured.
So clearly this contest would fit the definition of a commercial event. Were it a recreation event with no entry fee, prizes, or payout it would still need a permit. Recreation Event – Types of activities that require a recreation event special use permit include, but are not limited to, competitive races, contests, fund raisers, eco-challenges, dog trails, club activities, adventure games and endurance races. If you or your organization is considering holding such an event on the National Forest, you must contact your local Ranger District well in advance of the scheduled event to determine whether a permit is available.And the activity has to be included in the management plan, which is periodically reviewed, and opened for public comment, can be subject to legal action, etc, etc. Just to start. You can defend them just following the law. But what about this guys statement about cruel and for money. And do we not sell pelts off this land? Who made this joker the moral authority. He should be suspended for making ar type staements. It's not his job.
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Post by FWS on Nov 20, 2012 13:43:33 GMT -6
Don't be too sure about that, a few guys getting cited and having to appear before a Federal magistrate would put a real damper on calling contests. If sponsors had to be permitted and bonded for their contestants to compete on Federal lands I doubt we'll see many more contests. No need to defend them, just pointing out that the law is what it is as it would apply to Federal lands. And you're confusing the Feds with the NM State Lands Commissioner, who made the statement, the office he holds is an elected office by the voters of NM BTW. Ray Powell, Commissioner of Public Lands, M.S., D.V.M.Then go after him............................ So do you want trapping in NM declared a solely commercial activity and be subject to the permits required of all other commercial users on Federal and State lands ?
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Post by motrapperjohn on Nov 20, 2012 15:00:54 GMT -6
It was only State Trust lands, not fed.
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Nov 20, 2012 18:59:02 GMT -6
FWS you might not SEE many more contest in your area but in many other states coyote contest will continue on, that is a fact! You see the anti's stay where the butter is warm and leave the other states alone. I don;t think you have a clue on how many coyote contest takes place in the Dakotas and other midwest states with little to NO anti fan fare.
I could count 12+ in my area of western SD and nothing from the anti's they know they are wasting their time, also the managers of the BLM in those areas are PRO hunting and trapping as their boarding neighbors they need to get along with.
I would have little problem being in a contest and calling on BLM ground, that would be a suit I would fight. You see one thing to HOLD the contest on this ground another to be hunting for recreation on this ground and until I win or have sponsors that is all I am doing.
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Post by FWS on Nov 20, 2012 19:42:47 GMT -6
No, it was also the BLM, which is Federal, I would say the USFS would say the same if pressured to apply the law.
TC, you are very naive if you think that Federal rules would not apply in other states, regardless of what some of a states residents may think.
I knew too many loggers, miners, ranchers, off roaders, etc. in other states that were hammered by the application of Federal regs to buy into what you're claiming.
Hey, it's just the calling contests turn to get targeted, most everybody else has had their turn and now it'll be theirs.
And I don't think you have a clue that the antis are already there and now they have a new tactic that they'll happily exploit.
Again, very naive.
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Nov 20, 2012 20:42:41 GMT -6
FWS not Naive been there and lived there. When you enter SD you see those nice signs stating South Dakotans reject animal rights people. I find them to be quite nice myself.
Sure there are anti's in ALL states but in many they are a small faction because the majority don;t allow them to gain much traction and their counter parts, thosewith the deep pockets know when they are wasting both time and money. That is a fact and has been seen time and time again on many,many issues. I could name plenty.
Time for you to take a ride to other states and see where the rubber meets the road when it comes to anti's. We had state legislators that would hammer in public print anti's and their agenda. Like when SD made a law stating landowners could hunt coyotes from a snow machine and the anti's making their small noise, quickly shot down by vocal legislators in news print.
Plenty of others as well. The anti's just don;'t make headway in many states and find it hard to make friends in many of them as well. Nice places that way, less BS and more common sense taking place, that is what one finds in rural america.
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Post by trappnman on Nov 21, 2012 7:46:26 GMT -6
the sign is cool- but do you really think the sign is protection from federal regulations?
lots of blaming the messenger lately, instead of blaming what is
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Post by FWS on Nov 21, 2012 9:43:20 GMT -6
Been there, done that guy. And gone beyond our borders to see it.
You offer nothing but bluster and rhetoric in this, and your examples of state legislators is meaningless in regards to Federal land use regs, I know that because I've seen it firsthand.
BTW, much of the legislation that created the permit/fee system for commercial users on Federal lands was sponsored by Republicans.
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Post by mostinterestingmanintheworld on Nov 21, 2012 11:45:45 GMT -6
Somehow I knew this was going to blamed on Republicans. lol
You make are an excellent missionary.
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Post by blackhammer on Nov 21, 2012 17:12:17 GMT -6
Somehow I knew this was going to blamed on Republicans. lol You make are an excellent missionary. Not on this site. :)Back to just trapping stuff for me.
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Post by FWS on Nov 21, 2012 19:25:34 GMT -6
No reason to not point that out. Nor would the fact that Bush signed several of those bills. And I didn't lay 'blame' solely on the GOP, only that they have been responsible for much of it.
Remember discussing the regulations requiring a permit/fee for commercial photography on Federal lands? You railed on about the Democrats until I posted the law, the bill which made it law, the hearings, etc................................
Don't know about you but I like knowing the history of such things..........
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Nov 21, 2012 20:37:32 GMT -6
FWS I'm telling you the FACTS how your people in Cali and NM treat some of these issues, yep Fedral land useage is different than where I'm from or live.
I can tell you I could enter ANY coyote calling contest in SD and call on Federal lands with no problems. Just the facts.............. I know some of the people in charge of these grounds and have visited with them and have worked Federal grounds for control and fun and had little issues doing so.
When was the last time you stepped foot in a red state ? LOL. Last time I looked NM is a Blue state and easy to see.
Sounds like you have been offering up your share of rhetoric concerning this issue yourself?
The land managers see to it what takes place in their districts, be it US forest service, BLM or other Govt controlled grounds again a fact! This joker to decided to go public with his distain for such taking place, so be it not all are cut from the same cloth, again Fact!
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Nov 21, 2012 20:41:44 GMT -6
Tman the sign is about a state taking hold of an issue that frankly don't play well at all, not just in one portion or the other but over the entire state. It is a sign of commitment to AG, the fur industry and the people who live in the state and what the majority feel on this issue.
I don't think it has anything to do with federal law, but it plays well into state laws and rules and regs. You have the backing of many state legislators when it comes to such issues.
Sure you have had those that have tried to spray paint and vandelise the signs but they stay strong and send a message to those entering the state and that is why they are along the interstate and not along some secondary HWY.
I would like to see other states do the same......................
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