hair triggers

[trappnman]

my question to those that don't short notch or nite latch traps with conventional pan/trigger systems, is this:

Where do you then set the pan? Do you have any concern about pan creep before firing? Before I short notched, I'd try to set as close to end as possible, to minimize and/or eliminate any pan creep.

and that does give you a hair trigger I found.

Short notching doesn't- it gives you a good, crisp connection thats on/off with nothing inbetween.

[calvin]

T man, is the "short notch" the same thing as a nightlatch? or you filing it square, then back to where there/s only a small about of pan notch left? Yes, square and square will have a tad added tension. I just like some pan fall (commited) before the trap fires. Just preference.

[trappnman]

no, a short notch is just filing the pan notch back to 1/16 of an inch or so, then squaring up dog

[calvin]

OK, got it, now.

[cyaukey]

Aug 14, 2010 17:22:09 GMT -6 trappnman said:

no, a short notch is just filing the pan notch back to 1/16 of an inch or so, then squaring up dog

that's how i've always done mine. only bit longer than 1/16

[motrapperjohn]

Used to do it that way, but prefer the nightlatching now as when you pull down into the (click) the pan creep is already gone, next movement will fire the trap.

[billmeyerhoff]

I put the double notch in mine so that if I get it to short I have something left to work with. Use two different size files.

Also like the click to indicate that the pan/dog relationship is always the same.

[trappnman]

I used to use a file, and to make the 2 notches, but big clumsy fingers gave me a short notch anyways-

now just take the dremel and its short work on both notch and dog- you will need a sharp 3 point file along on the line to touch one up now and then. but thats a 1 sec job and only happens a few times a year but for those few times, that file is a must.

short notch is always the same as well- think of it as the 2nd notch on a nite latch.

[cyaukey]

tman, did you ever notice a rounding off of the notch area from the dog after continued use? I was wondering about then when I filed my notches down the little more than 1/16".

[Wright Brothers]

The ones I have that way I pull down the pan to the edge. That takes the slop out of the trigger system or at least aims it all one way. Can't do that with short notch.

To me hair trigger and travel/creep are two different things. I can make em no creep and 4 lbs tension if I wanted to.

Had a rifle trigger worked over, what an improvement over the factory release. No creep, and no hair trigger. You lean on it and it's there, crisp and consistant.

But yeah I know, traps are not guns.

[trappnman]

There IS no slop with a short notch.

and no creep-

if you don't square off dog and notch- how can you not get creep? With a full pan, and a stock dog, I can't set it, so that it doesn't creep at least slightly, before firing.

cyaukey- yes, that is a slight problem, but more so with coyotes than coon. Its why you will need a sharp 3 cornered file, to touch up the one here and there that does get rounded.

[Wright Brothers]

The slop I spoke of is from that junk pan bolt that goes through the wrong size hole in the pan and that wrong size hole in the pan shank.

Take a brand new trap, tighten the pan bolt snug, see, you can move the pan 3/4" before the slop from the pan to trap connection is taken up.

With a short latch that slop is not taken up from bringing the pan down, making pan tention consistancy impossable to acheive. Remember guys saying how tension stiffens after sitting in water? All this stuff has been hashed on here. And ignored by many. Edge said it best.

[trappnman]

that "slop" is constant- after the trap is set, there is no slop that comes into play. that "slop" is stable- if there is slop before setting, I don't care, it doens;t come into play on a set trap-

the dog and pan MUST be at their extremes to mesh if the adjustment is correct--

I can see no correlation on traps tightening up in water after sitting for long durations, and pan slop/loosness.

as far as tight pan, I want that pan to be 100% free falling with zero resistance for my coon/mink traps.

keep in mind- we aren't talking RIGHT vs WRONG-

we are talking a couple of different solutions, to accomplish the same tihng- fewer/no misses.

[Wright Brothers]

fewer/no misses YEP. We do what we think we have to that way.

I like free falling for mink or rat but thats all. To each their own and what works.

Do you free fall the 1.75s?
Do you lesson tension on the mont 3s? <--What is tension on those anyways?
Just curious about that from guys that like NO Tension.

And yes there are variables that make "one size fits everybody" not gonna happen.
Do enjoy others points of thought though.

[trappnman]

I don't like no tension- I find that the tension of just the jaws against the springs, provides me with all I want. On 1.75s, I like them so they JUST stay up on their own.

tension on my montanas mid pan is 2.5 to 3 lbs

[trappincoyotes39]

tension helps with deeper holds.

[trappnman]

it does-

[trappincoyotes39]

yes more body weight applied in a downward motion the better the hold. Not all animals come in with a straight downward motion without pan tension many things can happen, I should say with very little pan tension as no trap has zero.

I want pan tension in relation to the size of critter I'm trapping as I have seen much better holds. I follow the Slim Pederson thought process, pan tension is a "no brainor" for land trapping. Years back far more toe caught critters versus running pan tension related to the animal. I also had the old light bulb go off on a swift fox 3 lbs of tension and still had a good hold, so the myth of pan tension creating issues of misses on land I just haven't seen it. If a fox, coon or a coyote are committed to the set your going to have them. Guiding is a good thing.

I have caught plenty of red and gray fox and coons with 2.5-3lbs of pan tension. What I have cut down on is smaller skunks, and rabbitts.

[trappnman]

just as an fyi, in my testing, a short notch, squared up, has more tension than a unmodified pan/dog. An "average" 1.5 with strong springs, gives you 2-2.5 lbs- thats with free falling pan

[calvin]

Also depends on the critters. I think many mink never set some traps off with systems some run...or a higher percentage than some realize. With that I find it hard to run a combo trap for both mink and coon without some sacrifices on one end or the other. The best I have found so far is a light trigger with a fair amount of pan drop before the trap fires. In just coon area, I go with the same light tension (bent dog) but run full notch...past the nightlatch. Its not perfect but the best I/ve tried so far...and I/ve tried many different settings.

I base my opinions on the loss of mink from my younger years when I had pet ferrets. Same size and weight for the most part. VERY light footed when they walked on you...especially the females. I suspect this "May" be the reason why a much higher buck to female catch rate happens. Maybe not totally but I think it has some (to what degree, I don't know) effect. I would be currious to hear someone who just runs BE sets buck to female percentages.

I also have gone to some pan fall and "some tension added" ( I go by feel and hate those testers) for my coyote traps. Once I went away from a hair trigger and went to some pan fall, my catches increased with higher grabs, even when the tension wasn't up where I liked it.