Is 3/8" to thick for rat boards?

[renny1]

Thought I read that was the right size somewhere, now I can't find where I read it. Anyway, when the pelts come off they look awful thick, way thicker than wire. Thinking I am losing size and wondering if graders will bump a rat that is thicker than it should be. Thanks.

[Gibb]

www.furharvesters.com/pdf/boardzises-dim.pdf
I would thin the board down yet.
Jim

[TrapperRon]

Jim, not to be critical, but your diagram shows 7/16" which is larger than 3/8".

I agree with Jim that thinner than 3/8" is better. My thickness planer goes down to 5/16' which makes a nice muskrat board. At one time I had a jig also that was used for a final pass through the planer and it tapered the board down to 1/4' at the nose.

With clear western cedar you do not even need a belly wedge of any sort.

[Happy Plumber]

And I could name four good reasons for not going with either of your recommendations but I won't get in a peeing match over such of an unthought out argument. HP

[thebeav2]

My boards are a 1/4" thick And made to my specs. My rats always get me top dollar.

Sorry renny1 I just haven't got around to sending you out those patterns. It must be old age

[TrapperRon]

Jan 5, 2010 15:02:32 GMT -6 Happy Plumber said:

And I could name four good reasons for not going with either of your recommendations but I won't get in a peeing match over such of an unthought out argument. HP

I would suppose you are referring to a debate about wire vs wood. Not gonna go there either.

The Op asked a question about board thickness and Jim and I intelligently answered that question. I do not see where there was any argument at all, we are on the same page with our response.

[milkie62]

Excuse me for being new but I thought wire was best for rats.Am I missing something ? I have been out of the trapping loop for over 30 yrs and trying to suck up as much new info as possible.Wood for everything else though.

[gregh]

I build my boards to 1/4" and it seems to work OK.
Mike62 - I am not going to state that either is better however just for my own interest I took 2 similar rats equal in size and put 1 on a wire stretcher and 1 on a board.
I then took the measurements of each and recorded.
The rat on the baord did not change in dimensions but the rat on the stretcher shortened by 1/2" when dried. The shape of the rats are identical.
Once dried and off the stretchers there is a night and day difference between the feel of the rats. The boarded rat feels so heavy and thick.
I don't know if it will make a difference on the graders table but I like the feel.
I find rats take longer to put up on boards and if I was doing any quantity they would go on wire but for a handling competition or for the few I put up I like the wood stretcher.
Greg

[trappnman]

lots of debate on wood vs wire- very little difference when one sells in my opinion.

coyotes- I cannot see one difference in wire over wood, and I personally see disadvantages on wood- noticibly drying time. But when off strecher, I can visibly see no difference. I use wood on the bigger ones, cause the wood ones are far longer than the wire

fox the opposite- fox on wood can be pickedo ut over wire when off the stretcher, so I now put all my fox up on wood.

rats- we can go all day on this, some think length is increased on wood, but I don't see it, and will continue to use wire- is wood makes a 2x rat .005 inches longer, so be it- but eyeballing wire over wood, I can see no difference, and my rats on wire aren't going to be streched bigger on wood. for those who want to bring in physics, please tell me how a thicker insert, makes length.

on coon- most of the big finshers use wire- most of the little guys use wood- take it for what its worth.

mink for me always on wood

bottom line, it probably matters very little overall, as long as the pelt is skun, fleshed, postioned correctly.

[marbleyez2001]

For the original question, this is my understanding for where I normally sell. All the rat sizing at NAFA is done by an optical scanner that measures the area of the pelt. Based on the total area they put that rat into a size grouping. A thicker board would not get bumped up because there is no grader that is making that decision, because it is all done by total area.

For the second question thats been brought up...I've always put rats up on wire, but picked up some wood boards this summer and compared them side by side. Wood gave a better feel, apperance and length on put up rats for me. I put a dozen rats on wire, measured them and then put up on wood and gained on average 1" on every rat. This is beacuse the skirt can be pinned at the edges, and is just about straight across on the bottom, instead of being V shaped. I can only put up (flesh and stretch) about 12 rats an hour on wood compared to about double that on wire which is a major downfall.

The real comparison will be in March, as I put my 1/2 of my partner and I's catch on wood, and he put his half on wire. The grading and prices at auction will show the true difference for me.

[thebeav2]

Most all wire rat stretchers are way to wide In the shoulders and will make you short wide rat. The grader will always measure to the shortest part of the rat. And unless you use a clothes pin to pull down the skirt area you are going to lose length on that wire rat. And soon as you start using clothes pins your back to the same time It takes on wood.
I know that I can do similar rats on wood and on wire and I can get 1 1/2" more In length on wood. Just by getting the skirt pulled down even across the bottom.

Now with all that said I think that wood will help you when selling In the country but I'm not so sure It will help you size wise when the auction house Is using their scanner.

Rats on wood do have a nice heavy feel and sound to them when you grade the leather. You don't have that papery creakily sound and feel like wire rats do.
And they do look good.

I think that It all helps when your selling your rats. It's like the gal down the street check her out when shes going out to get the paper In the morning or check her out when shes out on the town trolling. Wire In the morning "wood" at night. A big difference. Same gal just a different presentation.

I know If Bob was here he would jump on the "WOOD" at night analogy

[trappnman]

the V shape really doesn't matter- the measurement comes from, as you say, the skirt-

I'll be honest in that the old peerless stretchers, seem to be far better than any "new" wire stretchers I've seen or used. Heavier wire is all I can come up with-

but if you put a rat on wire, and run your fingers down both edges sevreak times, while pulling sideways on the fur, you are going to get maximum length, and that length is going to STAY- if yours are creeping up 1/2 to an 1" while they dry, then I'd have to say, you had slack in the pelt to begin with.

position of the wire hooks, always in a "locked" position, ensure that.

As you can see, opinions vary-

[gregh]

Jan 6, 2010 8:06:36 GMT -6 trappnman said:

lots of debate on wood vs wire- very little difference when one sells in my opinion.

rats- we can go all day on this, some think length is increased on wood, but I don't see it, and will continue to use wire- is wood makes a 2x rat .005 inches longer, so be it- but eyeballing wire over wood, I can see no difference, and my rats on wire aren't going to be streched bigger on wood. for those who want to bring in physics, please tell me how a thicker insert, makes length.

.

trappnman - I don't believe I can gain length by putting rats on wood vs wire, however I don't lose length while they are drying.
If the boards were 3/8 thick as the original post indicated you would most likely lose some length or square area as marbleyez indicated.

Greg

[trappnman]

beav- the stretcher would make even less sense in the country, because every country dealer I've ever sold to, at least over the past 30 years, grades rats by nose count in any collection of good numbers.

a heavy pelt will be just as heavy on wire- and a paperback, will still be a paperback.

[trappnman]

greg- I don't lose length when drying on wire- but I do make sure, that when hung up, the pelt has no where to go. I've tried clothespins, and while they work, the "worry down" method of stretching, does the same.

and before I'm asked what 'secret" method I might use- there is none, but simple attention to detail.

I sit with the stretcher between my knees, and press the bottom of it together with my knees- then put rat on, with back of pelt towards you. Center eyes and nose, then hold both sides of pelt, and wiggle down stretcher, pull down as tight as you can get. Now release stretcher, turn around, do same on belly, making sure its straight and centered. I then smooth out edges, both sides always downwards- then use hooks ad made sure the hook locks. To do that, the bototm of hook must always be 1-2 inches below top of hook- hook into pelt, then push bottom down until you feel it lock into place. do both sides, then one last time on sides.

and no, this doen't take forever- it takes seconds to do. And that pelt if it shrinks any, and of course anything drying, shrinks some, its minimal and so minute, its meaningless.

wire or wood- age old question- the old adage was rats on wire, mink on wood. in the day, wood shingles were whittled for rats cause guys couldn't afford wire- not cause it was better.

but each to their own- each to their own.............

[thorsmightyhammer]

It'll be interesting ot see what happens when mike and kyle sell thier rats.

If you are going to sell to a country buyer I dont think there would be any benefit to speak using wood.

[trappnman]

will be interesting, but not really meaningful-

mike states the way he stretches rats on wire, he loses an average of 1" per rat-

thus, if the wire rats average 1" less in length across the board, so to speak, than those he does on wood, then of course the grade will be lower on those borderline rats-

the true test is to take rats the same size dried on wire vs the same sized rats on wood- then one would know if wood makes a difference.

way too much made on the length thing- when I get a rat on, the sides are as fully extended as possible, and hooking a clothespin on, as beav says does the same as wood, doesn't change anything FOR ME.

those using wire- do you just throw rat on wire, pull down and hook? if so, yes, I can see even loosing the 1.5 inch average beav gets-

[17HMR]

Nothing to do with how long but, I know that rats on wood feel heavier over wire, would that mean that any border line rats would go up a grade at the auctions, or grade eastern instead of western?

[thebeav2]

Hmmm nose count grading.
I wonder why the auction house sells rats by the square Inches.
I guess I'll take my chances with a TRUE grade not a nose count.

One of the problems I ran into this season was the large amount of 2XL rats I caught. Many rats stretched 18"

And yes we were In a hurry and I only have 100 boards so some of them went on wire But the problem was that my wire stretchers weren't long enough and the hooks bottomed out before the hide was pulled tight.

I don't know If your rats are the same as Steven 49s rats are but I looked at some of his rats on Monday and they didn't even come close to the quality of my rats. And some of his rats were on wood and some on wire and Ray Charles could have picked out the rats done on wood. There Is that much difference.

Drying time? I see no difference at all. 65 deg heat low humidity and rats can be off the stretcher In 2 days or less.

I did rats on wire for 40 years I still have 400 or so wire stretchers. But I went to wood and I will never go back It's all about presentation. And wood just looks better. Isn't that way you do mink on wood and fox on wood.

I wouldn't put much stock In what a fur buyer recommends most could care less what you use.
Guys like groney would rather you sell them your coon In the grease so that all the fur they sell to the buyer will all look like the junk they put up. Cut from nose to butt machine scraped and zip tied to wire stretcher. Then you have some fur put up on wire or wood with a little pride put Into that work next to their junk. Why would they want that?

Coon on wood coon on wire wood just looks so much better, Is It better maybe not but I like the look and It gives me a sense of pride when I look at my put up fur.

But It's all In the eye of the beholder.

[trappnman]

good question for Gibb.........

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let me ask this- why would rats on wood, feel thicker?

and I ask this- if something is thicker, then it means more volume- more matter between your fingers when feeling the pelt- correct?

and you can't MAKE matter- it has to be taken from elsewhere..............so if you make the thickness of the pelt bigger- where does that matter come from?

stretch means thinning- doesn't it?

hmmmn?

think about it- if wood gives you length, than it can't give you thick. wire, if supposedly the shorter pelt, by an average of an inch or more, than that pelt is thicker on wire............