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Post by Bob Jameson on Dec 18, 2009 21:16:38 GMT -6
I have not run any jacks with my dog only cottontails.What sort of runs do jacks make compared to cottontails.How far can you expect a jack to run and will they return close to their original jump or squat area as do cottontails?
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Post by trappnman on Dec 19, 2009 7:20:08 GMT -6
if your dog can run snowshoes, they can run jacks.
jacks are going to give you 20 feet and more betwen jumps when really going all out- you need a hare hound type dog- one that is fast, oops FAST and one that does not work checks close, but one like a big game hound that works checks in ever widening circles.
yes, both jacks and snowshoes return close to orignal spot- but its as you might guess, far longer in both time and distance. Most times, the pack gets out of hearing, before returning- and the danger is, changing rabbits- thus getting farther and farther away. If I ran hares again, I'd invest in a gps or tracking collar.
they tend to line out when first having hounds behind them- I've had runs well over 2 hours.
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Post by Bob Jameson on Dec 19, 2009 12:37:12 GMT -6
That is what I was figureing as you stated. In the open prairie one can get ahead at some point and shot the jack from a longer range with a rifle 17 or 22 mag. I have some nice grasslands in Kansas that I may take my beagle with me for some recreation for a day or two before I set a line out.
This dog is a younger female that hunts cottontails well but not sure how she will fare with the long strides of a jack. She has never ran hares yet. No hares in this part of Pa. only in the Northwoods mountain area of the state.She is actually my grand daughters dog but she moved away and couldnt take the dog to where she now lives so grand pap inherited a dog that i really didnt need or want. Dont want to get attached to another dog like I had been before.Those beagles are nice dogs as I had a few as a young man many years ago.
In the event I take her West this winter I might as well hunt her for some meat and fun for a couple of days.
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Post by trappnman on Dec 19, 2009 14:11:15 GMT -6
the key is going to be how she works her checks- if she really sticks to the point, like Buddy in that video I posted, then shes going to have lots of losses. but if she really moves out on a check, she will do ok. one thing I've noticed- jacks leave lots more scent than do bunnies, making trailing them easier.
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Post by northof50 on Dec 20, 2009 0:48:34 GMT -6
Take a longer reaching gun than the mag or a 17. The jacks will not plateau till they reach 1/2 mile in the open. Then they will just keep the dogs 50 yards behind them, and they will go for other resting rabbits making a 3 ring circus act happenning. Whitetail jackrabbits are not like snowshoes that go back to regular forms for sitting in. So getting them to come back to resting spots in my experience does not happen here at least.  |
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Post by trappnman on Dec 20, 2009 5:59:43 GMT -6
rabbits don't "run in a circle" to return to their forms- rabbits, including hares, when pushed, run to the perameters of their territory, then roughly circle the outer edge of that territory. Thus, roughly returning to the approximate area they were jumped in. In my experience, jacks do the same thing- eventually- meaning, the hounds NEED to stay on ONE rabbit-
the habit of changing trails at a loss, is the most common fault of hare type hounds
I've run jacks in Mn, and in WY, MT.
here, mainly flatlands, and they do indeed line out and go- but if the hounds stay on them, they do return. back in the day, many times we tried for the "trifecta" of hunting here- 10 jacks, 10 bunnies, 10 snowshoes (our limit is 10 of each per person)- never did it, and it was always the scarcity of jacks that did us in.
Out west in the sage, rock country, they seem to have a lot less of that get up and go- many times, I could watch the jack for 15-20 minutes in front of the dogs, going from rock to rock etc..then, with Buddys style, he would lose it.
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Post by Bob Jameson on Dec 20, 2009 7:30:05 GMT -6
I understand the need to reach as far out as possible with rifle shots when necessary but I dont want to damage them too badly as they will be table fare for a few meals. Want to keep as much meat as possible. I can shoot close to 175 plus yards with either rim fire for rabbits on a good rest with reasonable winds or it will be considerably shorter effective shooting distances. I can drive around the 1 mile section roads in many areas if necessary to cut off the run which will help alot.
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Post by trappnman on Dec 20, 2009 7:47:00 GMT -6
thats the nice thing about hunting hares with a group- its almost like deer hunting- you put standers where you know the runs are likely to go, then work the hounds with them in mind.
I remember when I judged my first large pack on hare- in a swamp in Ladysmith, WI. I was a yong pup in my 20s, and asked the other judge- so do we follow the hounds or what? He replied- well, if you think you can keep up with them...
I could not, and the day was spent trying to get ahead of the pack, and score the hounds as they came by- sometimes they came by so fast, I couldn't even get the #s of the first 5 dogs-
We never saw a jack in KS, so can't tell you their habits there- but since its mostly flatlands, Im guessing they will indeed line out and go-
given a choice, try hunting any bowls around- then get up as high as you can go- the jhacksm ighht well stay within that bowl if plenty of cover
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Post by JWarren on Dec 20, 2009 11:11:05 GMT -6
my beagle got one a jack out here a few weeks ago. I saw them go over the horizon about a miles aways. Headed the chase off in the truck and got the dog. I didn't think the jacks run a circle but if they do it is a very big one. You better be in some wide open country because they'll go out of sight.
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Post by musher on Dec 20, 2009 11:56:58 GMT -6
I've never seen a jack rabbit or cotton tail. But I do know a thing or two about beagles and hares.
Buddy in Ontario that I ran beagles with tells me that jacks take off in a straight line. Usually they run right down the fence row. So that's how they hunt them. One guy stands at the end of the fence row. The other and dogs drive to the other end and walk down.
They get the odd coyote when doing that also.
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Post by trappnman on Dec 20, 2009 12:06:53 GMT -6
Why use beagles if all they are doing is jump shooting or driving? defeats the purpose of the hounds, doesn't it?
it take a darn good pack of hounds, to circle a hare, esp in snow- I no longr have such hounds, but when I did, we would go into an area, and set hunters on the perimiter, and the hare would, just like a snowshoe, run in a rough circle.
Unless you think that jacks have no home range?
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Post by northof50 on Dec 20, 2009 13:24:20 GMT -6
Back in the 70's got some ear tags from North Dakota jackrabbits, they were tagged 160 miles away, 2 weeks before. So sometimes they do have large home ranges. Put an avain predator in the air and the rabbits respond entirely different and will run for tree cover or anything available including under your truck. even when being chased by dogs.
By mid Febuary the breeding cycle will begin and they will respond in big groups getting up and running soon as the first one starts. Therefore the 3 ring circus if the dog looses control.
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Post by trappnman on Dec 20, 2009 13:33:08 GMT -6
boy I guess they do-
yes warren, they line out a long ways in flat country- but they do return- or at least enough return, that we shot more than our share.
did we get shooting at all that were jumped- no, we did not- I attribute this to changing lines as much as anything. Including simply loosing the trial.
but te same thing hapens in big areas on snowshoes- more than once, many times more than once, we needed to quit the hunt, and find hounds, simply because they kept switching and switching.
same thing in fact on bunnies- in small woodlots they run small areas- in large woods they often act like hares, eps in areas oft hunted.
the speed of the hounds, is also directly related to the distanvce covered- slower hounds, push them slower, thus smaller- fast hounds cause any rabbit, even bunnies to line out. When I used to run much faster hounds, it was SOP for runs to get out of hearing- using slower hounds, almost never.
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Post by musher on Dec 21, 2009 5:15:47 GMT -6
I guess that I had darn good hounds! Actually, I know i had darn good hounds. When the hare population was good and we were 4-5 guys with 4-5 hounds we'd haul sleds. They were to help pull out the rabbits we shot.
Hares do circle. The size of the circle depended on the size of the woods. And you really wanted to shoot that hare before it swung by twice. Sometimes that third circle got huge.
I'm guessing that the fence line dogs were to jump the rabbit. They then bark letting the guy at the other end know that something is coming. The hound music is a bonus. Chasing a cripple is also.
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Post by trappnman on Dec 21, 2009 6:57:20 GMT -6
You never had problems with changing lines with that many hares?
musher- you are a dog man, I know you wouldn't put up with bad hounds. Any pack that can keep a hare going consistently, is a good pack of dogs.
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Post by musher on Dec 21, 2009 12:58:53 GMT -6
I've only had 3 beagles. They all knew how to retreive. Many a "missed" bunny was brought back.
All my dogs knew was hares. That's all we have!
They might have switched rabbits. I'm sure it happened. I also knew that when you were in a rabbit scarce area they'd run the same hare all day.
When in a high hare area you'd wait by a good runway. Sometimes you'd shoot 2-3 before the dogs came howling up. Numerous times I've doubled as 2 hares ran by together.
My gun was a sawed-off mossberg 500. Six shots. I've already fired all six at the same rabbit and watched it keep going. That's a little humbling.
Buddies and I organized our college schedule around hunting. It was waterfowl in the morning and bunnies for the rest of the day. Once the birds were gone it was bunnies only until the season ended at the end of February.
Snow wasn't an issue. Our best hunts were wearing snowshoes while we shot them. When I was up north one of my dogs was a pup. He ran a good chunk of an afternoon in the snow. He found the hunt rather "exciting" and he froze his willie. It was frozen out of the sheath and would not retract. A phone call south to a vet and I knew I had a problem .
Duct tape didn't work. I finally called the local Doctor. He was a good guy and came over. I pushed and pulled, got the thing covered and he put in a stitch.
It all worked out and Doc ate lots of hare that year!
If I could scan photos I'd have a couple to show!
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Post by Bob Jameson on Dec 21, 2009 16:45:12 GMT -6
I know that feeling that dog went thru. After 4 hours of treading water in 39 degree water in the Atlantic ocean bay that January of 2004 I figured that was all she wrote for my "Johnson".
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Post by trappnman on Dec 21, 2009 17:11:08 GMT -6
I loved to take good wingshots bunny hunting for the first time- can be a very humbling experience. I like using my Mossberg 20 ga/.22 over and under- a decent little small game gun
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Post by Bob Jameson on Dec 21, 2009 18:12:45 GMT -6
As of late I have been useing a thompson contender .410 (3") with a 14" ribbed barrel. Good shooting little pistol if you keep your shots under 15-20 yards. Sometimes it takes that second or third time around if it doesnt hole to get him. But I usually get it by the 2nd go round. If not the dog gives me this look when I shoot and he comes around looking for the kill and he doesnt get to shake that rabbit. I swear those dogs get an attitude at times when you miss.
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Post by northof50 on Dec 22, 2009 21:09:53 GMT -6
I've been around dogs where their masters miss the shots, and by the second miss, they adopt you as their hunting partner. For some strange reason they remember even years later, that guy kills when there is a bang, I'm with him is problably what they are saying.
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