Let's Talk About Bullet Accuracy

[Chamacat]

Yep...I have started reloading rifle loads 18 months or so ago...I'm a self taught hand loader..using only supplied information with componet's...As I go along I have a few questions...Is there a possibility that bottleneck case reloading dies are more accurate outa the box from one brand to another?
ie. RCBS, Redding or Lee dies..I would think that the machining of dies would have extremely close tolarnces no matter which brand..but I don't know...I started and have RCBS componet's and dies myself...then as I go along some guy starts telling me about bullet accuracy in the trimming of cases {Not being square to the case}.to me this isn't a issue cause the bullet is seated normally many thousand's deeper in the case and the case holds the bullet true..OK...then there's the guy that tells me that I need to gauge necks and cases with calibrated instument's...I stated out with the RCBS rockchuker and the the speers book with information on the "How To Step's"..then I called RCBS and they sent me a DVD on " How To"....I have tried at sporting good stores to find reloading "Demos" but none avaiable...I'm impressed with the handloads in my bottleneck cases that I have made..I only use OCL in my book for load lengths..how much does moving the bullet towards the lands help with accuracy? I trickle each powder to the grain of weight exactly..So enough..How far do you go for bullet accuracy?..I want to shoot as accurate as I can possibly shoot..I will buy the componet's but would like to hear from any of you that can guide us to bullet accuracy...maybe start off with the biggest single factor for bullet accuracy...your thought's please ...Carl

[FWS]

Lot's of questions there Carl. This thread could go on for a long, long time.

But I'll give you a partial answer on one,

how much does moving the bullet towards the lands help with accuracy?

It usually matters a lot, seating depth is critical with some bullets and varies from fifle to rifle as the throats/chambers differ.

Get an OAL gauge from Hornady and the modified cases for each of the calibers you load for, and get the comparators for each caliber that fit your caliper.

HORNADY/PACIFIC RELOADING TOOLS LOCK-N-LOAD C-1000 STRAIGHT OAL GAUGE

Lasts forever and it'll help a lot.

Some bullets like to be touching the lands and others like a jump.

Groups can shrink (or expand) dramatically as you adjust the seating depth.

Is there a possibility that bottleneck case reloading dies are more accurate outa the box from one brand to another?

I like Redding dies and use Bonanza 'bench rest' seating dies for several calibers, which are kind of an in line die that aligns bullet to case before it's seated. Like a Wilson bench rest seater that's used in a press.

Spinning loaded rounds with a dial indicator has shown me that seating in the Bonanza dies produces more concentric ammo.
Not neccesary for hunting ammo but it's fun to play with.

[monstertom]

Haveing spent most of my life shooting competitivly from 100-200yd benchrest that requires sub .200 inch groups to 1000yd bechrest. plus ultra long range steel and prarie dogs there is alot more to accuracy than the the right bullet, powder, primer combo.

One must first decide what they consider acceptable accuracy.
Some calibers will iherantly shoot 3/8" or less now matter how they are loaded while others, no matter how hard you try will never get below 1". Same with factory rifles as opposed to custom ones,

Will you be happy with 1/4, 1/2" or 1"

now even if you get an accurate load today other factors may fall into play.

Above seat depth, powder charge etc. A load that shoots great in Feb. may be to HOT in July.

Next for example not all 30 cal. 168grn bullets react to a load the same. Length of bullets will vary between mfgs.

Distance, Some rifles will shoot one holers at 100yrds and 6" at 400.
and vice versa I've got a 30-338 that on a good day will barely hold an 1" at 100 but will keep them inside 6" at 1000.

even with an accurate load fouling can play a part some bbls will go 20-30-40rds and shoot well some won't hardly go 15. so what seems to be an inaccurate load may only be affected by bbl. condition

[Chamacat]

WOW...Monstertom after you made the point of bullet's having good days and bad days so to speak..that actually has also happen to me with my .204..Had the gun one holeing then went back to the range sometime later that the bullet's had spread alittle on the target..I didn't realize that outside pressures and heat could distort a pattern..point taken..I'm actually want to be one-holeing ever shot at 100 that's my goal always...

FWS..I tried backing the bullet's off the lands 15 thousandths but the case and bullet would not fit into the magazine properly so even if the gun liked 3 thousandths off the land it would only give me one shot but that would be OK...So I guess using a typical RCBS seater die may not be from the factory true enough to seat the bullet in the case square...I will check alignment.

OK...I'm trying to figure out how to say this...What maybe is the number one or number two thing that a hand reloader cannot overlook?..the more I think about the bullet alignment in the case is what I want...I thought I got that outa the factory seating die...But again I'll check my loads to see how the factory seater die did...

OK..Here's the deal for me and why I'm asking for all the imput I can get from you guy's..I have drawn a bull elk permit..I have been to the unit and I'm convinced that I have chance for a world class bull...My camp as I speak is 14 miles in from the trailhead I was guiding hunter's up in the front near the trailhead then got a few days and took the horses to my camp..I realize that the kill zone on a elk is large...But none the less I want to hit where I want to hit..I have loaded more .270 remington rounds and off to the range tommorrow..I'm trying to get a recipe that will work with 160 or 150 Nosler partions...My shot will not be more than 200 yards tops...because of the terrain and density of the forrest...I have two weeks to get it together....I honestlt didn't realize there can be so many variables...Carl

[Chamacat]

Yep...I will look into getting the Lock-N-Load Precision gauge in the morning..Thanks FWS..Carl

[monstertom]

elk at 200 should be gravy, until your in the timber and have to feed that 150 grn pill through a coffee can size hole for 100 of it. once you have a good load you need to do a couple other things.

just because it groups good on the bench doesn't
mean it will hit the same when your grabbing a tree or laid across your pack, check your loads with different rest scenarios.

next shoot some drastic up hill and downhill shots. 30 deg. up or down can effect bullets 2-5 vertical inches

No matter how good a hunting rifle shoots it's still the first pill down the pipe that counts. We spend alot of time walking canyons looking for targets (Anthills ,small humps, etc) pull a range take one shot move on.

Don't be afraid to take extra ammo when you are that far back. Most times midday when the elk are bedded I will go to the bottoms a pop around or two over the course of the afternoon just to check if I can do it. plus if you take a slide or tumble you may need to rezero.

[CrossJ]

Sept 25, 2009 18:44:51 GMT -6 Chamacat said:

OK...I'm trying to figure out how to say this...What maybe is the number one or number two thing that a hand reloader cannot overlook?

Carl, In my opinion, there is not one specific step. To me there is one importent element though, and that would be consistancy. The ability to consistantly duplicate a loaded round will allow a reloader to 'fine tune' specific characteristics and evaluate those specific results for performance. This is only effective if everything else remained constant. This includes everything from brass prep up to neck turning. There are other factors also, which would include a properly bedded rifle and a well adjusted trigger.
A properly bedded rifle with a good trigger that is shooting consistant reloads proven to work in a given rifle should easily produce sub moa groups. That same rifle should be very capable of performing the task you are asking of it in this situation.

Maintain, Geordie

[lb]

Handloading is incremental, hard to tell unless in aggregate, measured in thousandths.

In my opinion, the answer to the question is a premium barrel. Spinning your wheels trickling powder to the last granual is great but you cannot make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. Maybe seating depth is the next most important, but maybe not, in your particular rifle? If your barrel won't shoot decent, no amount of tinkering with your load is going to turn it into a one holer.

Good hunting. LB