training a cat hound

[nebgascan]

I have trained several hounds to run coon but never to run bobcat. I have a 6 week old walker male that is out of 2 great coon hounds and would like to get him trained to run cats. I figure that I would start with some cat gland on a drag just like I would for training a coon hound. The main thing that I am worried about is what is going to happen if he does trail a cat and the cat gets ahold of him. I have heard horror stories about that and don't enjoy stitching up dogs in the middle of the night. Any tips or pointers would be greatly appreciated.

[trappnman]

never trained a cat hound- but can give you some advise never the less in general terms.

The biggest problem as you know, is getting the pup to trial and then open on game. The problem is how to get the pup on enough cat scent, to allow this to happen.

I'm guessing here, and I might be 100% wrong- but feral cats have got to have at least a similar smell to them-

One trick you might not know of, is to use treats in the grass, to get a pup to learn to use his nose on the ground- once you get him using his nose to find thngs, I'd at least try going to a farm when hes 4-6 months old, and encourage him to trail some cats.

Once hes trailing them, you need to get him on natural cats. I very seldom believe in running pups with other dogs, but with cat and bear dogs, its often the easiest way.

so- it would be worth a trip or three, to somewhere where you can do just that. But NOT until hes opening and trailing on drags or ferals- otherwise, its pretty much a waste of time.

don't let him trial other off game- for sure, you don't want a big game hound thats not straight.

You can also lay trails with a freshly dead wild cat- if you do so- pick it up and leave some checks, or its too easy.

Training scents I find are worthless more often than not, but their use is up to you.

[cameron2]

I have slightly different take on this than Steve. In my cat hound training experience, here's what I've done.

Get a roll cage. Put a domestic feline in it and every morning when its cool and your pup is fresh, sic that dog on the cat in the cage. Get all excited and the pup will too. Only do this for a few minutes, then remove the cat and the cage. Next day, do it again. If the dog is a keeper, after about 10 days, that dog's sole mission in life will be to raise holy terror with that cat. When the dog gets old enough to keep up with the cat, take the cat out in the hills and douse it real good with a gallon of bottled or creek water (no chlorine). Then turn the cat loose in full view of your tied up dog. The dog will go nuts and as soon as the cat disappears (in the weeds or trees or whatever), turn the dog loose. He'll run to the last spot he saw the cat and put his nose down to start trailing. If he doesn't show any interest in finding the cat, shoot the dog and start over. Serious.

With any luck, he'll find the cat and the fun will start. Lengthen out the time from when the cat disappears until you turn him loose. Its ok if he doesn't find the cat every time. Watch for how intense he is to hunt for it.

After a while, you'll turn the cat loose without the dog seeing it leave. Then go get your dog and just free cast him in the area where you turned the cat loose. He should pick it up and run with it. If he doesn't, shoot the dog and start over. Serious.

I have to tell you though, your odds of getting one hound that will trail and catch bobcats (depending on where you live) is about like getting hit by lightning. I've owned a bunch of good lion and bear dogs, and I've only had one that I considered a bobcat dog, and that dog could only come up with a bobcat in the presence of other equally good bobcat dogs, in optimum conditions, about 25% of the time.

[trappnman]

pretty much the same cameron- I've used cages on coon, but figured domestic cats would be easy enough to find live.

Do have to disagree with you on the early development of a pup- I 've had hounds that were mediocre for the beginning, but once something clicks in that brain, it can be an immediate turnaround. I don't make the mistake anymore of giving up too quick.

[cameron2]

Steve:

Cats leave about a tenth of the scent behind that a coon does. You gotta douse him with water or no dog in the world (at least none that I've witnessed) will ever trail him.

I'm not saying to give up on a pup if he's a little slow or has faults, but one thing I won't put up with is a lack of desire. Give me a dog that will run elk for three days . . . with enough electricity, I can make something of that dog. But a track straddler or a dog that isn't just plain wired when he thinks there's a cat nearby will never make a bobcat dog. He may turn out to be able to run bears or coons (both of those take a similar dog), but if you're talking bobcat dog, you're going to have to be much more selective and a lot less forgiving . . . unless you've got a lifetime and an endless supply of dogs to work with.

[trappnman]

a cat leaves little scent? interesting- didn't know that. They say rabbits have the lightest scent of any prey species-

so why do you think a coon hound or bear hound needs less desire?

oddly, some of the very best hounds I've owned, in every way, didn't like dead fur. They would just smell it and go on.the

[yoteler]

trappnman
Do you know anyone around our area that has lion hounds? one was spotted by 3 people not very fare out of our town. Out of the 3 people standing and talking I was 1 of the individuals that seen the big kitty. I will be getting ahold, of Tyler Quandt the Minnesota DNR Enforcement, for Goodhue County. But I am sure I will be getting the same responce I did when I mentioned the sittings of the Black Bear,THEY IS NOT ANY BLACK BEARS IN THE AREA,,, and then getting it on a trail cam, and then 11 months later Tyler HIMSELF shooting and killing it, in a tree, in Redwing MN

[trappnman]

I don't know who would say that about bears- they get photoed around here pretty often. a mother and 2 cubs were seen fairly often last year out in the cty 10/4 area.

if there is a cat, it is moving through and that wouldn't surprise me. but a big cat in calf country, would be noticed pretty quick- and with all that rain, I'd think tracking a snap.

I have people tell me every year about bobcats- and yet, I trap both counties pretty extensively on land and along crrek corridors, and never seen a track or had a catch. the one killed by the train below weaver, could well have been on that train. I think eventually we will get cats back here- this coulee bluff country is perfect habitat. They say they follow the turkeys- lets hope that true.

[rockcreekcurs]

I'm certainly no expert, but personally, I don't think you "Train" a great cat hound. I believe they are born.

All you really do is feed them, keep them healthy, socialize them and put a handle on them. After that it's all up to the dog.

They either have what it takes, or they don't. You can't teach a dog to hunt. They have to have that desire from the day they hit the ground.

I have started young dogs alone and with other dogs. There are benefits to both ways.

Most of the best Cathounds I have had or have seen, only ever needed a ride to the mountains. Their breeding did the rest.

The roll cage can help a young dog fire up, but after that it's time to hunt. There are lot's of people that over do the roll cage, to the point every time you take the dog out it looks for you to pull out the cage. Hard to get a dog to hunt out when it's in the bed of the truck looking for a critter in the roll cage.

IMO, the best thing you can do to "Train" your Cathound pup... is take it hunting!

Take care and best of luck.

[yoteler]

Yah I know about the mother and cubs. The local Wardens were the ones that said they werent around 2 years ago, when the trail cam pics showed them here. As for the cat it was a very nice lion, the size and huge tail is what gave it away

[trappnman]

rockcreekcurs- I think what the guy wanted to know- was how to start a cat hound solo, so if you got any tips, spill em please.

I agree with this-

a hound is only as good as it is the day its born- you cannot make him better than he is through training-

BUT- you can darn sure make him less.

[beaverbill]

these guy were started on cage cats

[trappnman]

did you try free range cats first? I'd think they would be ideal- both a sight and scent chase.

[beaverbill]

they were wild cats used a cage for about two week then started turning cats lose

[trappnman]

interesting-

what % of strikes do you get on cats compared to treed? do most cats tree, or den up?

btw, please add your location to your profile.

[beaverbill]

25% of the cats are shot in front of the dog the other are tree or go into a hole

[trappnman]

thats a real good average. do cats turn and fight ever?

[rockcreekcurs]

Jun 11, 2009 8:13:46 GMT -6 trappnman said:

rockcreekcurs- I think what the guy wanted to know- was how to start a cat hound solo, so if you got any tips, spill em please.
I agree with this-

a hound is only as good as it is the day its born- you cannot make him better than he is through training-

BUT- you can darn sure make him less.

Disclamer: I am NO expert, just a redneck that likes to hunt his dogs.

I would say, find a houndsmen near by and talk to him or her about running your pup with their broke, non agressive, good, cat catching dogs.

This will save you lots of time and headache.

If you have to raise the dog alone, do so like you would any other dog. Work on obedience and make a buddy out of the pup. Show him a few cats or coons in traps when he is old enough to do something, to get him fired up, then hunt the hide off him. I'll tell you how I would do it.

I start with a trainer turned loose, then I let the pup go while he can still SEE it. I do this near some trees so the trainer can get up one. Ideally, I do not want the pup getting in a fight on it's first meeting.

The dog should run to the tree and bark, looking up. Then start barking like crazy(Treeing).

That is the only time the pup gets to SEE the trainer leave. After that, I make the pup hunt for the trainer.

I sometimes show the pup the trainer, in the cage then put the pup away and turn the trainer loose. Other times I may go release a trainer beforehand and return to the area with the pup and let it hunt out til it gets on the track. If the pup doesn't find the trainer, we call it a day and go home. If the pup does find the trainer, it is rewarded.

Once my dog does this succesfully a couple times, it's time to go find a real track and walk it with the pup on a leash. I walk the track as far as I can. If we jump the cat, I turn the pup loose... even if it is a sight chase at first. If the pup trees this cat, I let the dog loose on the next track, before we jump the cat (after we walk it out, to hotten it up some for the pup of course).

After I do this a few times succesfully, I begin to turn my dog loose on tracks as I find them. This will help the dog learn to trail.

I come up empty handed and wonder what happened... more than I am looking up a tree at critters for the first while, until my dog figures it out and starts putting trees at the end of those trails.

After a few years of trash breaking, walking out tracks with my pup and treeing desired game... I start to work on freecasting.

This is where I trust my dog when it hunts out, to only strike desired game(in this case only cats). No trash races are allowed and the dog must learn to take tracks as they come to them. I freecast my dog(s) while I hike behind them. It's a great way to see some awesome country and to train a cathound.

You'll wear out some boots and maybe some relationships if you want to really, make a top dog. Remember, you have to start with a top pup, to make a top dog.

You can't turn chicken nuts into chicken salad. The first key in all of this is: Raising the right pup and raising the pup right.

If you don't have to raise the dog alone... don't! It's a long row to hoe... but if you get it done. You'll never be more satisfied.

Anyone can put some money together and buy a good cat dog for a few thousand dollars... but there are darn few that can truly raise a good, honest, catch a cat anywhere, type dog.

Best of luck.

Mason Workman