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Post by Cal Taylor on Mar 11, 2009 10:32:30 GMT -6
I guess most of my points aren't being explained well enough by me. I'm not familiar with other states and programs. Only Here. And as I tried to explain, that each county here can contract whomever they want for damage mangement or run whatever program they see fit. Most of them contract to WS. It is a contract situation, and you, or anyone else, can approach the county predator boards and try to sell them your program. Some counties here do contract private trappers, one county has one private trapper and one WS trapper. WS doesn't have a "monopoly" on anything or any services and they can't require a county to use thier services. Some counties only contract aerial services from WS.
I also tried to explain that the ranchers do pay fees to fund these county boards who in turn contract whomever they want, and most of the rest of the money comes from the state legislature, from funding voted on within the state. We have a very Ag based state and they can plainly see that the cost to savings ratio with predator control helps the ag based economy in the state. I'm not going to argue the merits of any other state or program that i'm not familiar with. I hope I've made this clearer and you guys can argue amongst yourselves about the rest of the issues.
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Post by trappnman on Mar 11, 2009 10:36:44 GMT -6
Cal- I think where you lost us, was in the minimart thing-
I understand perfectly what you are saying-
Since they are public contracts, do they go to the lowest bidder?
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Post by bobwendt on Mar 11, 2009 11:46:32 GMT -6
of course not tman, but they can. the board considers all options and goes with the best deal, not necessarily the cheapest. if you needed surgery on a brain tumor, would you seek out the cheapest dr in bumflock red pakistan? if you wanted pee to trap with, would you buy the $6 a gallon stuff? if you wanted arial gunning, would you hire the guy with a kite?
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Post by makete on Mar 11, 2009 12:51:41 GMT -6
The guy with the kite would be fun to watch...lol.
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Post by robertw on Mar 11, 2009 13:06:33 GMT -6
Even with the fraud issue of some bounty programs....At least a beaver is being killed somewhere! The alternative is lots of money being spent and very few beaver being caught.
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Post by trappnman on Mar 11, 2009 13:08:45 GMT -6
are the bids the lowest bids or not?
if not- then you just change the monopoly-
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Post by bobwendt on Mar 11, 2009 13:20:58 GMT -6
probably not the lowest. there are a few private guys use those 1 man hang glider planes to hunt dens ,and shoot coyotes. but not able to do what a fixed wing plane or helicopter can do. thus the real plane or copter costs more. they aren`t bid "by the head" rather by a time period or area. if the board deems the lowest bid the best deal then that gets it. if they deem the highest bid the best deal then that one gets it. this isn`t wall mart. wallmart hat for a wallmart head. none of the bounty boards wear wallmart hats.
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Post by bobwendt on Mar 11, 2009 13:29:24 GMT -6
fwiw, no private guy can compete with w.s. as the feds match costs 50/50 in all the programs that use federal support , as I understand it. and lots of that cost is more than just field men, i.e. administration, paycks, supervisory, etc etc. and lots of that fed money goes to to public benefit projects like disease research, birds at airports, public health issues, research etc etyc. no private guys do that stuff. so you can`t compare cost of an apple to an orange and say one is cheaper, as not same product. . so a w.s program can be the same price as private and still be 1/2 price. so in that sense, the cheapest cost TO THE BOUNTY BOARD is the one that gets the job. they factor in reliability and history of the w.s. program too. I don`t know any private adc guy that can match that, irregardless of killing skills or desire or work ethic. it`s like you want to compare cost of a weed puller to a farm manager. the farm manager gets the weeds plus a whole lot more. I`m, not sticking up for anyone or against anyone. just a lot of you guys think all w.s. does is kill coyotes for filthy rich ranchers. they do that, plus a whole lot more.
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Post by ohiyotee on Mar 11, 2009 15:15:26 GMT -6
believe me Bob i realize that
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Post by pat on Mar 12, 2009 8:31:14 GMT -6
I am well aware of how WS operates and what their realm of responsibilities encompass. But from my experience in SOME STATES and SITUATIONS they have almost an exclusive monopoly merely based on their existence. In some areas of the southern U.S. beaver are becoming a major problem with state highway systems. The State DOT is only more than willing to contact and contract with WS simply because they are the Federal government and they aren't required to put it out for public bids. As a matter of fact, if they did open a bid process WS wouldn't even consider talking to the DOT. IF they did enter into the bid process that would put them in direct competition with the private sector which is a no-no. Here in Michigan numerous government entities have skipped the bid process and hired WS to shoot deer, etc.. Now, WS is getting into the urban wildlife management industry - bird control, gassing woodchuck dens at airports, beaver control, etc.. Just go to their website and look at the individual state program pages.
While it may sound like I am anti-WS, I AM NOT! I am actually pro-WS with limitations. I believe that there is a better way in which to manage nuisance or depredating wildlife, and that is through elimination of the direct assistance aspects of their program and contracting entreprenuers who have the skills, knowledge and abilities to do the job. They could be seasonal contractors, temporary contractors, or full time contractors. This would cut the federal monies required to hire, train, and equip employees who recieve health care, disability payments, and retirement funds to mention just a few of the federal benefits available to federal employees. Additionally, it would provide employment opportunities for entreprenuers to grow their own businesses and hire employees of their own. This is what I believe federal programs should do - CREATE A WIN-WIN situation for all concerned.
Pat
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Post by trappnman on Mar 12, 2009 8:48:49 GMT -6
pat- I have zero dog in this fight, have no WS I've ever heard of here-
but your statement of you like WS with limitations-
your "limitations" seem to serve to eliminate WS-
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Post by pat on Mar 12, 2009 14:29:17 GMT -6
Steve, what I am suggesting would not eliminate WS, just reduce their scope of operations. They would still have a tremendous amount of work to do - mostly research and disease monitoring, like in migratory birds, feral swine, wild horses, etc. They would still need State Supervisors, Secretaries, IT personnel, all of the employees at their various research stations, etc.. They just would not being providing the direct assistance aspects of their current operating model.
I want a smaller federal government with a stronger cooperative interaction of government and the private sector.
Pat
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