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Post by lynxcat on Nov 21, 2006 21:26:27 GMT -6
EXCUSE the poor copy past...HOWEVER to make a point...the .17 has 245 fl/lb of energy AT THE MUZZLE... the 22 250 has 384 fl/lb of energy at 500 YARDS...more than the .17 has at POINT BLANK RANGE...and 2 1/2 times what it has at 100yds...THESE ARE THE FACTS..direct off the Winchester site... And dont come back with what you can load this at...or that at...it doesnt make a rats ARSE bit of difference...these #'s are apples to apples. ANYONE care to find what the .17 has for energy at say..300yds?? INCH/LB'S would be fine... lynx .17 Distance (yds) Velocity (fps) Energy (ft.lbs.) Muzzle 2550 245 100 1901 136 22-250 Muzzle 3810 1611 - - 50 - - -0.4 - 100 3341 1239 0 0.8 150 - - -0.4 0.9 200 2919 946 -1.6 0 250 - -- -3.9 -1.9 300 2536 714 -7.3 -4.9 400 2182 529 - -15.2 500 1859 384 - -32.9
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Post by FWS on Nov 21, 2006 21:45:45 GMT -6
Lynx ol' buddy, looks like you're using data for the 17HMR, not a .17 Remington. ;D
Here's the data from Remingtons site on a 25gr. HP at 4040 fps muzzle velocity.
Velocity in fps Muzzle- 4040 100- 3284 200- 2644 300- 2086
Energy in ft. lbs. Muzzle- 906 100- 599 200- 388 300- 242
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Post by Sage Dog on Nov 21, 2006 22:37:21 GMT -6
Thanks, guys.
If I can justify the expenditure, I'll go with the .17 Remington. Honestly, I have doubts that I could hit a target the size of a bobcat's chest at 300+ yards.
I have a 270 Weatherby for those 500+ yard shots, but I think I will leave it home.
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Post by lynxcat on Nov 22, 2006 5:54:59 GMT -6
I THOUGHT that was kinda sucky... I'll stick with my 250 for predators...I rather sew 4...than loose one...kinda like my trap modification theories...the heavily mod'd traps may NOT be necessary for cats...but if I pick up a couple EXTRA's a season that I'd have missed w/ a stock setup...WELL WORTH IT.. lynx
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Post by FWS on Nov 22, 2006 21:29:57 GMT -6
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Post by edge on Nov 22, 2006 22:10:01 GMT -6
FWS,
Is the 17 still a cleaning issue?Like how many shots between cleanings.....also,is there decent factory ammo out now or no?Reason I ask is there is one available locally,brand new...cheap,just got a call on it today.
Edge
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Post by mostinterestingmanintheworld on Nov 22, 2006 22:17:05 GMT -6
You know Edge I think the cleaning issue is another urban legend about the .17.
I read a internet forum post from the "coyote gods" who belong to the .17 cult and may even be the leaders.
They decided to test the cleaning myth. I believe they got to 350 rounds without noticing a big difference.
Maybe I'll see if it still around and post it.
I clean mine at the start of the season and at the end.
Haven't noticed any problems.
Why would a .17 be different than a .22
Joel
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Post by edge on Nov 22, 2006 23:33:29 GMT -6
Because its smaller?I dont know......
**I clean mine at the start of the season and at the end. **
Well then it passes muster for me;I am willing to clean it every six months.More than that and I would consider it needy and start to resent its existence.
Now how about factory loads?PSP or SP.....
Edge
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Nov 23, 2006 7:39:33 GMT -6
Cleaning is every 15-20 shots for my rifle. I know a few 1,000 bench rest guys an they say carbon is a guns worst enemy and builds up shot after shot and the pressures inside can make that carbon almost as hard as the steel in the barrel. I was amazed when I cleaned my rifle and had pure white patches, then he gave me some JB compound and what it brought out.
It isn't the copper build up so much as the carbon build up that I like to get out more often and makes it easier.
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Post by mostinterestingmanintheworld on Nov 23, 2006 8:59:15 GMT -6
When I clean mine I clean the heck out of them, I use a couple of solvents and the paste that scours the stuff off.
During the season I probably only shoot 50 rounds or so.
I don't call very often during trapping season so my shooting is pretty much at volunteers.
Joel
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Post by mostinterestingmanintheworld on Nov 23, 2006 9:04:56 GMT -6
Google coyote gods .17
You'll get a good read about the .17 from a couple of California coyote hunters.
If someone knows how to post it here it would be good for the conversation.
Joel
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Post by FWS on Nov 23, 2006 11:45:31 GMT -6
Here's the Coyote Gods discussion forum, www.coyotegods.com/ubb/ubbthreads.phpAnd a good article by those guys on the 17 Remington. coyotegods.com/pagepart15.html It was an issue with the older Rem. 700's, I had one that fouled like that as did a few other guys I knew. But the SS Douglas barrel I replaced the original with has not been a problem. Reports on the CZ's is there's no fouling issues and I've not heard that about Rems. made beyond 1980 or so. I've been using the foamy bore cleaner called Wipe Out the last few years and it works very well. Edge, I've not fired a single round of factory ammo in any of my centerfire hunting rifles since I was 12 and started handloading. So I really can't tell you about factory loads, I'm pretty sure only Remington loads for the 17 Rem. now. The 25 gr. Berger Match HP is the best fur bullet I've used. I've heard that Remington is coming out with a factory version of the 17 Mach IV, which is based on the .221 Fireball case. The Mach IV is very efficient.
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Post by mostinterestingmanintheworld on Nov 23, 2006 13:09:16 GMT -6
I use the same bullet that FWS uses.
25 grain Berger with 25 grains of Varget.
I've shot a 1 inch group at 200 yards with that load.
Never been able to do that with anything else.
Could be some luck but this rifle sure gives me confidence.
I've regularly had 2-2.5 inch groups at 200 which is OK with me.
I think Remington is the only factory ammo for it.
My gun shot the factory ammo pretty darn good. The guy that sold it to me gave me a box.
Joel
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Post by Sage Dog on Nov 23, 2006 17:03:54 GMT -6
FWS - The CZ 527 in .17 rem is listed at walmart.com/guns for $474.88; would you say it would be as accurate as the Remington 700?
Mat - I made a note of the handload you listed. Thanks.
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Post by FWS on Nov 23, 2006 18:17:08 GMT -6
As accurate, perhaps moreso based on what a few guys I know who have them tell me. CZ makes good rifles, I'd buy one before I bought another Remington.
It has a set trigger too, if you know what that is
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Post by lynxcat on Nov 23, 2006 19:09:57 GMT -6
I'll stick with my OLD pre 64 M 70 Winchester 22-250 FWT...it'll shoot with any of those 17's for accuracy...factory ammo vs factory ammo....and as I said...I rather sew 4 than loose one... I ENJOY doing my cats...holes or not.. lynx
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Post by lynxcat on Nov 24, 2006 19:30:05 GMT -6
NO takers eh??? figured SOMEONE'D comment on a pre 64 in 22-250 cal(didnt make one )....it IS a pre 64 w/a douglas premium barrel same weight as the fwt bbl...w/a canjar single set trigger... THAT'S why I was offerin...I wasnt plannin on PLAYIN FAIR!!! lynx
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Post by FWS on Nov 24, 2006 20:37:20 GMT -6
There's probably more pre-64 M 70's being used with new barrels (and stocks) than factory originals so no surprise on that 22-250. You can even get that exact Featherweight barrel contour with the sight bulge from a few different barrel makers.
Interestingly though, Winchester's custom shop would build you a rifle in a non standard chambering, even wildcats which a 22-250 was at the time.
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Post by lynxcat on Nov 24, 2006 22:26:54 GMT -6
The thing ROCKS as well..I've had Steyer manlichers..TONS of custom guns.(dad s a gun dealer for 40 years...so I've SHOT IT ALL).but NONE fit me like my pre 64 243 fwt...SOOO bought another one...and had it worked!!! The thing LITERALY drives tacks...I've NEVER been a paper puncher... but this thing has the ability to make me SHINE...several 3 shot groups SMALLER than a jelly bean...and NONE over a nickel...and like I said...I cant punch paper!!! lynx
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Post by thunderbolt on Nov 24, 2006 22:41:09 GMT -6
lynx, I like your taste in rifles. I'm a sucker for the pre 64's. My next will be a 264 win mag with the 26 inch barrel. I used my buddies this year to shoot my speed goat at 400yds. Thats a flat shooting round. That rifles has killed about every animal in NM from antelope to elk.
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