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Post by trappnman on Mar 3, 2008 17:33:04 GMT -6
also- fair enough.
Boiling traps in hot water, some like lye added, is the best way to clean off old crap from the traps. I like to boil once a year, then as traps need to be reused I just clean them with soap and bleach water and a brush, rinse off if doing small batches, if big batches, carwash, then rinse at home.
Dying trpasi s adding either powedered logwaood, or natural stuff like walnut hulls, sumac berries, etc to make the traps take on a nice black color. There is debate if this is needed, but I like doing it and it sure doesn''t hurt. It does offer some rust protection.
Waxing both speeds up the trap action and acts as a rust protectant when trap is bedded.
Waxing is done by melting wax to just steaming, then submerging traps for a few munites to adjust temp, then pulling them out and letting dry. Good waxed traps should have the wax almost invisible.
I think its the best we can do, to impart a "neutral" odor to our traps.
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Post by PAMINK on Mar 3, 2008 18:10:10 GMT -6
I have to reply on this one. HERE we have a very low coyote population and now that I think of it we have a low population of everything else. I know for a fact that OUR COYOTES HERE will avoid rust or dig the dirt off the jaw etc. I attribute that to the low population itself. The greed factor just isn't there. Some say coyotes are coyotes and they all act the same. I disagree....a coyote in a low population acts a lot different than a coyote in a high population.
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Post by Zagman on Mar 3, 2008 18:24:37 GMT -6
In my experience, traps that I have owned for a long time and have been dyed and waxed WELL several times, just don't get that gnarly, orange, flakey rust that you'd see on a newer trap OR on a trap that was totally left outside to the elements and neglected.
You guys talking avoidance, I am curious as to your definition of said.
With no snow, unless trapping a mud flat or sand, I really dont see tracks unless they are on the pattern. SO, if you see a track on the pattern and you have a rusty trap, is that avoidance? If no tracks on the pattern and no digging, with no snow, how does one determine avoidance?
A lack of an animal in the trap? Perhaps.......
I dont reset super-rusted traps......I have no need to, as I own plenty of others that are ready to go. Nor would I advocate it as a practice.....
However, I dont agonize greatly over slightly rusted traps that are in a "remakable" set. OFTEN, due to mud, I simply cannot remake a set. But if it is dry, it would be a rare situation that I'd pull a trap after a catch, except for:
A brand new trap that has been rubbed down to silver due to a coon or skunk catch and I know the ground is wet or will be wet soon.
Zagman
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Post by trappnman on Mar 3, 2008 18:42:07 GMT -6
avoidance of the pattern is easy to see- tracks all over that set, dancing on the set, lure holes blown out- and not one trap over the trap. Trust me enough to say its well blended.
A trap that is polished shiny by coon, will rust with the type of rust I am talking about in days. I'm not saying the whole trap looks like a pumpkin, but say that here and there that orange fresh stuff appears.
Enough to matter.
And also keep in mind Im still catching coyotes on these- but I do see pattern avoidance occurring either on off color patterns, or rusty traps.
But easily cured.
Zags- you are always of the opinion if you do this or that- it adds a coyote here and a coyote there. Changing out rusty traps, does just that for me in hard trapped areas.
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Post by trappnman on Mar 3, 2008 18:43:54 GMT -6
PS- I don't "agonize" over them either.
Many, many say they throw in a fresh set- perhaps changign the trap does just that?
but fresh set guys are 'getting every coyote" and me, I'm just obsessing....
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Post by Zagman on Mar 3, 2008 18:50:37 GMT -6
avoidance of the pattern is easy to see- tracks all over that set, dancing on the set, lure holes blown out- and not one trap over the trap. Trust me enough to say its well blended.
Glad I asked, as we differ in opinion here. Tracks all over the pattern and/or blown lure holes is just a lucky coyote, TO ME.
Seems if he is comfortable enough to do all that, he is not nervous or afraid or avoiding anything........he just did not hit the pan.
He avoided the pan, in other words, but not on purpose.
I guess intentional avoidance due to a bad smell, rusty trap, unblended pattern, etc. would have the animal well away from the set. That's why I was curious as to the definition.
Here's what I want a definition of......one track on the edge of the pattern, nothing else.
Zagman
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Post by Zagman on Mar 3, 2008 18:57:53 GMT -6
Couple things......
When you say hard-trapped, I assume you mean by you? You have mentioned on here before that you never or rarely see a trapper's catch circle.
Fresh sets......I dont get a fresh set confused with a dirty/rusty trap. The fresh set is meant for the coyote that wont approach/work a coyote catch circle.........
And since I always double set, and percentage-wise catch fewer doubles than singles, there is always a fresh set handy. Once both are dirty, I throw in a new set, for a total of three.
MZ
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Post by trappnman on Mar 3, 2008 19:08:10 GMT -6
Zags- yes, by me.
no,no- you are missing the point about trap bed avoidance-
I don't mean the lucky ones- yes, I get THAT also....
I mean 360 around the exact width, depth of the trap. Tracks around it on all sides- packed down, coming to fractions of an inch alway on all sides of the trap- think of the set a donut- the "hole" is the dirt over the trap- the tracks are the donut-
This isn't every set or near every set- but with rusting traps, it starts showing up- remove tem, and it goes away.
no luck involved its very obvious is was 100% NOT wanting to put his foot over that trap. Not being afraid, just not wanting to step THERE.
It is the same Zags- say I catch 2 coon and possum in a trap- a very common occurance- that trap will now rust. Yet, non coyote remakes are to me no different than fresh as far as catch %. That might just be me, but it is what it is. So changing out the trap, is the same, to me, as a fresh set as far as results go.
Now- having said that- it's easier to just put in a fresh se, esp with disposibles than to remake one so thats what I do.
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d
Tenderfoot...
Posts: 35
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Post by d on Mar 3, 2008 21:26:56 GMT -6
I don't care at all, if no one else has trouble with RUSTING traps. I know, from many delibrate tests, that RUSTING traps cause some avoidance from coyotes that work the set. At least you THINK that rust is the cause! Lot's of variables to try to eliminate!
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Post by trappnman on Mar 3, 2008 21:52:46 GMT -6
no- I KNOW rusting is the cause of te particular behavior I am describing.
Its not hard to problem solve if you follow common troubleshooting methods- you change 1 variable at a time- if no change, you replace tat variable and add/eliminate 1 other- when a change occurs, you repeat the tests- when the results are consistent concerning one variable over years - accurate conclusions may be drawn.
I never have this on trap that aren't rusting- evey time I have this, when pulling the trap, it is rusting more than normal. When I replace that trap, I start catching coyotes at that set again.
Now WHY rusting causes this in some coyotes, I don't know. But I know it does. Nere. For me.
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Post by Zagman on Mar 4, 2008 6:53:13 GMT -6
quick story about avoidance......a story that fits my definition.
New spot on a huge diary farm....new location. Pull in, Round-Up sprayed field, so all vegatation was brown, dead and short.
Cast the dogs out, they find one old greyish white pile of terds.
Set two traps, confidence low.
Next day, double on mature, older coyotes.......in the mud, not able to remake either set.
Next day, dries out, pull into spot.........10-11 piles of fresh BLACK coyote terds, all no closer than 10 feet either of the sets.
Me thinks......family group, pups looking for ma and pa, since this was late October.
Due to sign, remake both sets AND add two more fresh ones.
Change the order of the check the next day, as I was always pulling in to this spot in the dark, and wanted good pictures of multiple coyotes........well, that was the kiss of death.
Nothing caught for 3 days, then a big male by himself........checked these sets for another week, nothing!
Now, farms down the road to the west and south produced several coyotes......sets within a mile or two.........so I MAY have taken some of them elsewhere.
The one coyote I caught MAY be one of the culprits.........just assumed it was more than one coyote that left all those terds.
I was there long enough to catch more there and simply didn't......experiences like that sure get you scratchin' your head.
Zagman
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Post by jsevering on Mar 4, 2008 8:03:32 GMT -6
may be way out here but think the type anti freeze used with a worn trap may help with some avodance...
remember when we still had a few foxes still around in decent numbers.... use to like to use calcium to help dry out the catch circles after a rain.... after a day or so you had beautiful dry dirt from the pattern to work with.....
the first five or six foxes from a good set and the same trap didnt seem to be a problem as long as the set stayed active... after about three or four days of inactivity and presumably with transient fox now working the patterns they would start acting more like greys... walking the lip if there was any and scratching the backing from the back side of the hole.....
put in the same exact set five feet away and start catching again... who knows could of been a whole host of reasons....
but always figured they just had a zone there that they didnt want to pass there nose over for what ever reason due to the lip walking and scratching back of the backing.... know some state active rusting doesn't produce a gas... im no chemist for sure and have no reason to disbelieve the people who tell me this is so....
started wondering if the active rusting combined with certain antifreeze,s help produced a change in the temp if even so slightly that it would eventually produce an unique odor that they didn't want to pass their snout across.... all voodoo observations on my part....jim
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Post by trappnman on Mar 4, 2008 8:12:32 GMT -6
Zags- Im not debating your definiton.
Its a situation that I have see also. call it set avioidnce and yes, there can be countless things that cause that.
What I am speaking of though vis a vis rusting, is pattern avoidence, not set avoidance. Two completely separate things.
that "perfect set" location was similar- when we first pulled up, turds everywhere, some smoking fresh, some old. I thought it was going to be the spot- but only got those 2 (in Loris set)
What puzzles me, is why you can trap a location for years, and always catch about the same amount of canines, then 1 year- zip... the next year and years after, back to normal. And good habitat locations- ones that you would think that even if something happened to the local litter that year, etc- that you would get a traveler.
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Post by trappnman on Mar 4, 2008 9:43:20 GMT -6
good points jim- and you are more than likely right-
but I don't use antifreeze in non freezing conditions- Im talking those 60,70 humid fall days. after freeze up, traps rust very little. Thinking about it, during winter I never change a trap, simply cause it isn't needed.
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Post by jsevering on Mar 4, 2008 10:05:08 GMT -6
steve... i don't claim to have a clue....
was trying to somewhat address pin pointed pattern misses more or less....
know we had a debate about gas or any, if any that was produced from rusting a few years back that still leaves me scratching my head over on hals board....
figured the only thing that could half way make any sense to me for something to bring it to the surface that much, where it could possibly be a presumed factor, if indeed it is, would be heat added in the mix.... be it solar maybe to a degree or chemical....
expanding molecules mabye.... but like i said all voodoo theory here and far from a chemist....jim
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Post by trappnman on Mar 4, 2008 10:36:54 GMT -6
yes, antifreeze that causes rusting, would certainly add to the problem for sure.
Yah, I remmber tose debates- te debate was that would the chemical reaction of rusting cause heat and odor.
We never did settle that, did we...LOL
but I do believe that whether its the slight heat, or the released gas, there is something about fresh rusting that puts off some of them in a big way. Not so severe they won't work the set, but enough to make then uneasy about putting a foot THERE. and maybe more than I know- maybe it puts off some so much, they don't even come close?
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Post by Jeffrey on Mar 4, 2008 10:54:06 GMT -6
Steve, I have trouble with the speed dip or dyed and waxed debate, when I speed dip there is never any rust, but I have had digging, but most of our digging is from coon or skunks. Now we know from experience that this is usually the case, but it's hard to tell because there are usually no tracks to make it conclusive and if you remake the set eventually you will get a yote but sometimes nothing. Now on a dug up trap do you always replace them? And is it worth the effort? Now I've had two kinds of dig ups, one where the trap is flipped out of it's bed and one where the trap is left in the bed, with my crappy success this year I know I have some tweeking to do.
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Post by ohiyotee on Mar 4, 2008 11:01:28 GMT -6
mybe a shaky trap and not oder?
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Post by trappnman on Mar 4, 2008 11:16:09 GMT -6
I do believe that most of the time when a trap is totally exposed, its a coon or skunk. I think much of this, is done with their noses....
I hardly ever replace a dug up trap. If a coyote, its usually just an edge or a small visible portion so I just recover it- often just take the reverse end of tepliers and scratch some dirt over it and that takes care of it.
On a completedly exposed trap, I remake the set as a remake.
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Post by NEPISIGUIT on Mar 4, 2008 17:20:35 GMT -6
My traps are mostly uncovered but often turned completely over and never sprung still set. Weird. I think it is coon but not sure. Almost impossible to get a good print as surrounding earth is hard and trap area is dug up too much. Had one area last year where seven traps were set up within about 1000 feet. Every day same senario =all dug up. Was after fox that had become a problem for workers. Finally caught him by setting another trap behind the firs. Do not know if he did all this digging or not as i was finished here
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