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Post by trappnman on Mar 3, 2008 7:54:17 GMT -6
oops..we forgot to add smiley faces- I dont think traps can rust underground.
They need oxygen. ;D there ya go... (read the water/rust thread)
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Post by thorsmightyhammer on Mar 3, 2008 7:59:46 GMT -6
oops..we forgot to add smiley faces-
I dont think traps can rust underground.
They need oxygen.
there ya go...
(read the water/rust thread)
thanks are in order...i guess
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Post by kevinupp on Mar 3, 2008 8:03:26 GMT -6
I only worry about rusty traps when I'm trapping away from the farms.
Every farm has rusty crap buried everywhere.
Now when I go out into the mountains where there isn't any rusty crap buried I try to use the cleanest traps possible.
I used to really worry about blending my sets in, until I saw Zags "Atom Bomb" set, and watching a friend make a set that looked like all hell had broke loose.
Now the majority of my sets are real gaudy. I like the eye appeal.
Draw em in with gaudy. Get them commit with lure/urine/bait.
Being on location is my #1 concern when dealing with coyotes now.
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Post by ohiyotee on Mar 3, 2008 8:11:29 GMT -6
Yes those smilies would have made all the differance....lol
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Post by trappnman on Mar 3, 2008 8:14:23 GMT -6
the question - what is different in this picture- is this
1) a RUSTING trap in a remake circle with a "natural" dirthole and "natural" lures and obvious human interaction
vs
2) a piece of barb wire under the ground for 10 years....
and more to the point- please tell me how you know, that coyotes walk over other fresh RUSTING object in the ground, and not step over them? Maybe they do it all the time?
you take out 3-5 coyotes from an area- all remakes- and you see tracks avoiding the pattern.
Everyone says- some don't work remakes..hmmn....wonder why?
so "everyone" says, and there does seem to be at least a little conscenous here- to put in a fresh set.
question- how many of you take that dirty, RUSTING trap- and make your new set with it?
Maybe spit on it a little too- why not? grandma does....
I'm thinking that MOST of you, would use a fresh trap.
Now- after years of seeing this in hard trapped areas, I tried to cure this.
Mistng sets with urine, helps. Interestingly enough, another tying I figured out, and then read Hoofbeats and see he mentions the same conclusions.
One thing I noticed- without exception- traps under the dirt in such situations, were VERY much RUSTING with that fresh, wet, orangnish rust.
My rule then became to switch the trap out- and low and behold, those sets became viable again.
If you never have remake problesm, if you never miss a coyote, etc and etc- man, you be good.
Me? I miss a few, and am always trying to reduce that number. Replacing RUSTING traps with fresh ones, helps do that.
More importantly, rather than to have to defend my thoughts, I was hoping others might give what THEY feel is critical to trapping coyotes.
Bob- my goal is 100% of the coyotes 100% of the time.
lets look at the bottomline....If I can catch that "last" coyote at every location- that would give me 20-30 more coyotes, with the exact same amount of work and the exact same amount of expenses- so why wouldn't taking 100% be a goal?
Cause i'll tell you, I'm not there yet....
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Post by robertw on Mar 3, 2008 8:29:54 GMT -6
A rusty trap at a set could be a problem if you draw attention to it but you can certainly catch all the coyotes you want with a rusty trap as well. Bob gave an example or two above.
I don't worry about all of this stuff, I understand what needs to be done and just go catch coyotes. I truly believe that most people over analyze coyotes and seriously complicate things in their mind.
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Post by trappnman on Mar 3, 2008 8:40:40 GMT -6
I seriously think that in run and gun trapping, not enough emphasis is given to taking that "last one".
this is a discussion board. Its purpose, it to discuss topics of interest. Discussing topics of interestm, isn't "worrying about things"... it's simply sititng aorund the campfire and bs'ing exactly like we all want to do.....
A rusty trap at a set could be a problem if you draw attention to it
draw attention to it? pleae explian how remaking a set, is drawing attention to a rusty trap?
Robert- in this years coyote challenge, I want you to use those rusty, dirty traps that you just brought home from Mississippi. After all, it doesn't matter, right?
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Post by robertw on Mar 3, 2008 8:48:59 GMT -6
I was trying to figure out how to get out of going to the contest this year!
As for using rusty traps, not a problem. Dirty skunked up traps are a different matter and a different subject.
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Post by trappnman on Mar 3, 2008 8:50:53 GMT -6
So you will agree to use the rusted traps if you go?
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Post by ohiyotee on Mar 3, 2008 8:53:09 GMT -6
I just use the will it help me question. will it help me to have rusty traps , i don't see anyone having to discuss the validity of a clean trap so that's all i need to know.
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Post by trappnman on Mar 3, 2008 8:55:51 GMT -6
good point.....
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Post by Stef on Mar 3, 2008 9:51:44 GMT -6
I can tell you one thing about blending, top dress dirt colors and refusals around here.
I never trapped in the south of south west......
But I've seen pictures of sets, videos etc.. on the internet from trappers who did well in their area using imported dirt ( not the same color), no blending what so ever and caught coyotes and cats like pro's the next day.
But they never been trapping here...LoL If i do what they are doing... On 60 - 70 traps out.. I'll be lucky if I catch a coyote/day. I know, I was doing that when I was 18 or so and it just don't work HERE.
That was the pattern looking part.
--------------
I hate these kind of thread when people are almost saying that you don't need to wax your traps for catching coyotes and we all know that you're waxing all your coyote traps.
Yes we all caught coyotes with rusty traps, dirty skunky traps whatever..
Why are you trying to tell something that you do only most of the time when you're out of clean traps, out of state? Even there...when you're out of clean traps, When you need a trap.... you look in your pile of dirty traps, you won't take the dirtiest and rustiest one hey? I'm sure you don't!
To my hears it sounds like... Don't clean your traps, Go trapping with rusty and dirty traps and you'll catch coyotes without misses or other dirty traps related problems.
Enough writing.. it doesn't worth it anyway..LoL
Stef
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Post by Jeffrey on Mar 3, 2008 10:54:32 GMT -6
Well since we are on the subject of clean traps, I use speed dip, and I know that people tell me that I can't catch yotes on speed dip, but I know different. The first red fox I caught, was on an exposed pan, but that doesn't mean I try to set them that way. If I get a pattern miss I can't always assume it was the trap, maybe it was just dumb luck on the coyotes part. What we are assuming all the time is that coyotes have the greatest sense of smell all the time, but I know from owning bird dogs that depending on the weather there sense of smell can be unbelievable or I've seen them stand on a dead bird and not know it's there. I think that no matter what, that the older the coyote, the harder they will be to catch.
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Post by trappnman on Mar 3, 2008 10:54:38 GMT -6
can tell you one thing about blending, top dress dirt colors and refusals around here.
I never trapped in the south of south west......
But I've seen pictures of sets, videos etc.. on the internet from trappers who did well in their area using imported dirt ( not the same color), no blending what so ever and caught coyotes and cats like pro's the next day.
But they never been trapping here...LoL If i do what they are doing... On 60 - 70 traps out.. I'll be lucky if I catch a coyote/day. I know, I was doing that when I was 18 or so and it just don't work HERE.
That was the pattern looking part.
without a doubt, without a doubt. For ME here also stef.....
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Post by trappnman on Mar 3, 2008 11:07:08 GMT -6
Jeffery- I don't say for a second that you can't catch coyotes on speed dip. the only season I broke 100, was all with speed dips.
What I do say, is that after several years of using speed dips, and the excitment of doing "big numbers" wore off al ittel, I noticed more misses thna I liked.
I then went to F-1... and it was better and thoguht I had solved things...
but even then....
so one year made delibrate experiments wusing well aired out traps of speed dip and F -1, compared in then trapping same spots, same beds with dyed and waxed. Waxed bering used last. I saw the difference. Definite difference.
my digging with wax, is so low, its not worth mentioning anymore.
I do see some areas of the country, seem to have more success with dips. But not here. and trust me, I'm as lazy as the next guy, and if I didn't have to wax, I wouldn't.
But you make a real good point Jeffery- what works for you, might not be the norm for others and vis a versa.
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Post by yoteler on Mar 3, 2008 13:06:03 GMT -6
trappnman I am starting to trap, or I should say learning to trap, and some of the traps I bought are rusty, how can I get that off or should I just go out and buy New equipment??
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Post by trappnman on Mar 3, 2008 13:14:10 GMT -6
no, rusty traps are no problem- clean off the scaly rust if any, and then clean them well via power washing or boiling, etc. Some use a dye, some don't after cleaning. Most all then wax the trap.
if you want to try dips, you simply mix and dip traps, let dry.
Watch out for the hound hunters, some like to make traps disappear.
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Post by bobm on Mar 3, 2008 13:42:50 GMT -6
Here are my observations from my limited trapline. Everytime I've had a dug up trap, I've been able to identify what was wrong. Most of the time it was poor bedding which was clearly evident. Some of the time the digging was done at a point of rust on the trap. This could clearly be seen once the trap was removed from the bed and cleaned off. I can say that I've never had a clean dyed and waxed trap dug up that was properly bedded. There was one time where I had most of my traps that had been freshly dyed and waxed being dug up. My thoughts were, how can these dang dogs be sooooooo smart. After pulling everything and cleaning and redying and waxing with new wax, voila!. The K9's suddenly got dumber and no more digging. My own opinion, which is based upon many of your observations, is that poor bedding or unnatural odors cause them to dig. That's it. And by process of elimination, if I know the trap was bedded properly, it must be an unnatural odor. In most of those cases on my trapline it is rust. When I get rid of the rust, the digging stops.
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Mar 3, 2008 16:36:23 GMT -6
Active rust has an odor any coyote can smell, I don't pretend to know what they think but they will dig at it for sure! They don't know it to be a danger I'm sure, but the odor causes digging, I don't care what you do with it or what bait you use in this area and others I have trapped -they can smell it and it won't add to your catch! You can trap coyotes with speed dip and you can trap coyotes with a rusty trap, the question one must ask himself how many are you missing by doing so? You are going to miss coyotes with both for sure! A well blended set that is solid and stable will take more coyotes in a quicker time frame than an eye sore, that is not bedded firmly. Sure we can all pup trap in the early fall and catch them, but I want my odds at every coyote that walks by the trap the first time so I take more time and blend and bed well. I want the set to match the surroundings as close as possible. A rusty trap is a slower trap and why would you want to set it? I dye and wax at least 2 times a year and sometimes 3 times a year. To always have clean equipment ready for complaints. I have caught coyotes in dirty traps, but if I can help it I want clean traps dyed and waxed for best results. Rain days are great days to do up 3-4 dozen at a time.
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Post by yoteler on Mar 3, 2008 16:50:42 GMT -6
Yah ok I deserved that, but none of your traps dissappeared, and once again Thank You for letting me know if you had any set. But yes it was my own fault for starting that arguement, but I was only going on the facts of the the pheasant hunters dog. As for me having to worrie about it, I don't because one of the 700 acre farms, no dogs can run in there, and NO one has trapped it or are aloud to trap it. But I was given the ok to trap away, and I am pumped. You were talking about, simply mix and dip traps, let dry.and wax the trap. What does that do, Like I said this is all new to me, so I will have ?sssssss
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