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Post by coyotewhisperer on Feb 14, 2008 7:51:38 GMT -6
I don't care how many trappers come to KS they won't get on my ground unless they are with me ;D
But i don't want a limit either which alot of this talk can help happen.
Then again with a low limit on cats say ten or below guess that would fix 99% of the non residents from coming.............well maybe not LOL if guys will drive from PA for three weeks for three cats ;D
Jeff
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Post by JWarren on Feb 14, 2008 8:10:45 GMT -6
Don't assume that not wanting a resource wiped out is the same as asking for a ten cat limit. why do you think these states are in trouble? Kansas, Wy, and NM seem to be the only states that allow nonresidents and don't have a ten cat limit or some other bs for whatever reason almost all the state hopper people go to one of these three states. Kansas is probably 90% private land correct me if I'm wrong, if people in KS are seeing the cats get hit can you imagine what the areas of public are like?
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Post by coyotewhisperer on Feb 14, 2008 8:26:29 GMT -6
Essentially i don't know what all the gloom and doom is about.
I've got plenty of cats just didn't get to work on them with a new baby.
Shoot i bet on what little public ground KS has the hunters poach more cats than trappers take. furthermore 90% of public hunting ground in KS the area managers close it off to trapping.
Internet talk thats all it is.
Bob has caught the same amount of cats year in year out for how many years? Now predicting a dozen or less next year?
I guess we won't know until next year but im betting he'll get the same amount of cats.
we have been getting some really bad winters and i think that has everything to do with this years low cat harvest. Affecting cats movement etc. factor in the price of gas etc. etc.
As a side note every kid that traps cats in KS has Bobs videos so could be relative same amount of cats just spread out through more trappers tagging them. I'll let bob tell the video story he ran into!
I think the DNR here is wrong about muskrats and not having a spring season hopefully they don't run with this ball that seems to be getting larger mostly by nonresidents.
Jeff
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Post by Billy Y on Feb 14, 2008 8:57:11 GMT -6
My cat catch is up for this year.
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Post by mostinterestingmanintheworld on Feb 14, 2008 9:37:14 GMT -6
I've been watching cat population dynamics for 30 plus years and I think we live somewhat parallel existences.
I've seen high populations with high pressure and I've seen low populations with low pressure.
I don't worry about them much anymore. I think the environment is the key in the desert.
Next couple of years likely to be harder to catch until the Chukars and rabbits rebound then they will come back with them. I have graphs that show that kind of pattern over decades.
You guys that have game departments that want to put limits on cats should challenge the biologists to provide the science that justifies those limits. I mean biological science not seat of the pants "by gosh and by golly" management because somebody might be making a couple of bucks.
Joel
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Post by trappnman on Feb 14, 2008 13:51:57 GMT -6
guess that would fix 99% of the non residents from coming.
us yote guys will still come.....
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Post by coyotewhisperer on Feb 14, 2008 14:07:27 GMT -6
LOL
I just don't like all this talk about the sky falling when it isn't true
The term "the squeaky wheel gets the grease" or however that goes LOL comes to mind.
Keep asking for it and you might get it............thats all I'm saying!
Jeff
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Post by bblwi on Feb 14, 2008 14:18:33 GMT -6
I don't trap cats. I have gotten only 2 permits in 26 years here in WI for 1 cat per year. Would this thread and or discussion be taking place if the high dollar cats were $100 and the low dollar cats were $25? If not than wildlife management is not something that trappers who trap cats are not practicing and you open up the door for others and non trappers to establish wildlife management controls be they for or agin what you would like them to be. Bryce
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Post by coyotewhisperer on Feb 14, 2008 14:27:07 GMT -6
Guess thats a good question for the guys that think they have killed all the cats or don't have any to begin with.
Because of outfitters and land knowone can get on to trap in my area my cat population is fine...........Probably too cause im not that great of a cat trapper to kill them all. I just get lucky and catch a few in possum sets. ;D
Jeff
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Post by thorsmightyhammer on Feb 14, 2008 14:40:18 GMT -6
Jeff has Kansas always been a good cat producing state or is it a recent phenomena
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Post by coyotewhisperer on Feb 14, 2008 14:49:32 GMT -6
Since i was about 13 we've always had alot of cats in my area of the state. that was twenty years ago.
Of course there wasn't and isn't alot of trappers around. guys who run maybe 20 traps or so but plug up alot of ground.
Go to the KS dept of wildlife and parks website. they show a map of all KS counties and how many cats are tagged in that county. those real high numbers you will see are always that high in that area because of the huge cat populations there and great cat habitat.
My area the cats are more spread out and a guy cant get enough of the good habitat to make a good run.
Jeff
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Post by bobwendt on Feb 14, 2008 14:55:10 GMT -6
the mange in coyotes in ks has led to high cat populations in the last 10 years. abnormal high. coyotes are now slowly recovering and cat prices rising. prey base has dropped due to alternate flooding and drought. also bad weather has lowered cat and coyote catches. so there are a lot of misc factors affecting populations and harvest levels now. it`s like a jigsaw puzzle that I don`t think anyone can put togather perfect. a wise man when confronted with such does nothing, just watch and wait. the first rule of a dr. or furbearer biologist is do no harm. untill factual things are known and how they fit togather, do no harm, make no changes.
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Post by thorsmightyhammer on Feb 14, 2008 15:19:15 GMT -6
Its a tough call bob.
What will happen when/if the mange is ever over.'
Cat population going to fall.
Or if the prices drop is the population going to rise.
Than this is all moot.
I analogize it to our moose population. In the thirties they were nonexistant. In the early eighties they were all over. Guess what they are gone.
Should we have had a hunting season?
I am uncomfortable when decisions are made on knee jerk reactions. Sounds to me like Joel has alot of good data with years to back it up.
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Post by Freak( Jim V.) on Feb 14, 2008 16:29:35 GMT -6
I totally agree with Joel. I have had my worst luck in areas where the small game population has crashed in one way or another. It is nothing other than a cycle. Ice storms kill quail , along with rabbits. tuleraromia(spelling) kills rabbits , The plague can wipe out many sq miles of prairie dogs in months. So what happens when a combo of these things happen? Predators need prey or they starve
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Post by bobwendt on Feb 14, 2008 16:42:29 GMT -6
our idnr wants to protect fox while discouraging coyote harvest thru loss of market. I use to release red fox here, as so scarce. no more. better I utilize the last red fox in indiana than a scumbag coyote eat him. I now realize that if every red fox in the state was released every year, we would still never get our reds back. in the 90`s we took over 13,000 red fox in wyoming. I felt guilty as we raped them mercelessly. then mange hit and now there are none ,or close to it. I realize now that all 13,000 of those red fox would be dead of mange even if I had never been born. suffered terrible and a total waste to mankind and themselves. we humans are just tiny pawns in this. ma nature calls all the shots. if we are lucky we are able to trap in the small windows of opportunity she provides to do well. most never hit that timing or location right. I`m convinced seasons, limits and furbearer biologist have little if anything to do with whatever populations we have or don`t have. and convinced they( fb biologists) think they are indispensible and actually can make the world turn backwards or change the direction the wind blows. it`s comforting in a way to know they can`t. means in the big picture/long haul, they can`t hurt it either. it`s that short haul that worries me. I think the dinosaurs probably thought the same. and they were here for millions of years. us mere piss ant humans a couple hundred thousand at best in our present form.
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Post by JWarren on Feb 14, 2008 17:57:11 GMT -6
in wyoming the rabbits peaked about three or four years ago and hit bottom this year, the cats got mighty scarce after a couple years of massive harvest due to a coincidence of increased prices and some mild winters for driving, there were some years in there with a chitload of rabbits and mighty few cats, now there are still mighty few cats mighty few rabbits and almost the same amount of coyotes but alot more hungry, these are only in areas I observed of course which is mostly public land
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Post by Chamacat on Feb 14, 2008 19:51:01 GMT -6
I ran into two different non-resident trapper's this year...Nice polite gents asking me politley if they could trap the ranch....I freaked out..first time this year this has happen....So I told em I was not the ranch hand but I trap all winter such and such....they left and I got to thinking...If I was a local trapper on public land and found out that there was competion on trapping ground...I would smoke any non-resident hands down.....Now before you think anything..let me say..Chances are I'm gonna know how to either get above you or below you...chances are I've done alot of pre-season scouting...Or from just plain knowing where cats are from days of past....I'm gonna have sets in them holes quick...lol
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Post by hotandry on Feb 15, 2008 13:10:14 GMT -6
Cat numbers are down in some places and up in others according to different guys on this thread.
Depends on all kinds of things. Droughts, fires, prey species, coyotes, lions, trappers, hunters, agriculture, etc.
In my area this long term drought seems to be killing about everything. This desert can explode with life in a wet cycle and then dry up and blow away in a dry one. While it is way too dry here, one state away its too wet. Have a buddy who traps in NM and they have had several wet years. He is knee deep in snow right now.
This winter, a large number of bobcat and mt. lion sightings in Las Vegas. Made the papers a few times. Police and animal control and NDOW were shooting them and hauling them out of town right and left. When NDOW was called they would euthanize them every time. County animal control would catch the bobcats alive and haul them back out to the boonies. I volunteered to haul them for free, but was turned down. My mistake was the county guy saw the box of Borax in my truck. One bobcat even went after our senior Senator, Harry Reid, according to Harry, and got away clean.
Seems to me that when the last pack rat and jack rabbit went down the hatch the starving cats headed for town. And tried to eat some democrats.
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Post by mostinterestingmanintheworld on Feb 15, 2008 14:02:45 GMT -6
I caught two young cats last week that were starving to death. What good would protecting them do? They were dead already for all practical purposes.
Joel
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