|
Post by trappnman on Dec 26, 2007 7:24:01 GMT -6
yes TC, I actually do. when you are pounding a population, I (not you it seems) have coyotes that get skittish.
Wiley E once said " anyone that has said they never had problems with coyotes, is lying or hasn't caught enough coyotes to matter."
You see- I trap all my yotes- I don't snare, call, or use planes.
|
|
|
Post by MartyPhipps on Dec 26, 2007 10:07:35 GMT -6
I wonder if pan tension is making the difference for you guys? Do you guys that like them add tension to the pan? Do you guys that don't like them run little or none?
|
|
|
Post by Bob Jameson on Dec 26, 2007 17:12:18 GMT -6
I have always run pan tension in the last 25 -30 years. Early on in my trapping years I didnt know much about it nor did I understand the pros and cons of tension.Just wasnt alot of info back in those days as I didnt get magazines or have much contact with other trappers. With screens I dont even think you can set with them without pan tension with out having more issues on keeping the trap set. Of course I dont have but a few weeks in using them initially.
|
|
|
Post by coyoteman37 on Dec 26, 2007 18:31:10 GMT -6
I know I have used steel screen covers with 1 1/2 2 and #3 traps. I think some are missing the point. properly tuned strong traps with solid bedding and foot placement is priority. the steelscreen does more than act as a larger pan. It will allow no dirt to get under the pan and still allow moisture to dissapate. The screen will also keep a level pattern where the trap is and not have a sink hole where the filter or wax paper will be after a rain or snow. I also run3lbs of tension at the center of the pan. I have held yotes in 1 1/2 rubberjaw with number two springs. I get mostly full pad catches very few toes or misses. I now use the #3 montana with 1 pr of #2 music wire springs. my yotes and fox are sold on the live market. My traps are all tricked out. The old timers used leaves moss etc.. they seen the need for that but the screen does so much more. You do have to work with it a little to get used to it. After that ooh baby. Now for the truth of the matter if it works for dont fix it.
|
|
|
Post by trappincoyotes39 on Dec 26, 2007 21:20:20 GMT -6
You don't get sink holes when you pack inside the jaws and run good pan tension with filters. Tman we can have issues with coyotes, but getting them over the trap with well blended sets is not one of my issues in this area, and I would bet if on some of the sets I have seen you post pics of get rid of the hard lines and the steel screen wouldn't be needed. Not trying to insite you, but getting coyotes on the pan isn't a big issue at all and I don't see how adding screen is a make or break deal If you think it adds to your catch so be it.
|
|
|
Post by trappnman on Dec 26, 2007 21:29:16 GMT -6
then don't insult me, and give me the credit to know about hard lines. You always seem to think my methods are worng- just like when you were obund and determined, that my methods and traps would positivley not work on western coyotes and that was not true
no- screens aren't a make or break deal- but I like them, and tat bothers you?
As I said- I trap areas from 5-6 weeks- same coyotes, blah, blah-
when one is spooked- I don't use M44s, planes, trains or automobiles- I trap them.
on a 24 hour check.
you don't like screens- simple don't use them.
I thin kcoffee filters are a pain in the ass- I'd as soon use nothing as them- but what do I then do? Simple I don't use them- but at the same time- I don't say you are wrong because you strongly recommend them.
please- post the pictures I've posted with hard lines- since you recall them so vividly, it should be easy to do.
I'll be more than happy to match TRAPPED numbers with you any day-
|
|
|
Post by mostinterestingmanintheworld on Dec 26, 2007 22:36:36 GMT -6
Has anybody here ever just buried traps with short throws and no pan covers?
I expect that a lot, if not all of my traps would fire w'o a pan cover unless the ground got wet and did the concrete imitation in clay soil.
I bet sand and some loams would lend themselves well to no covers?
Joel
|
|
|
Post by thebeav2 on Dec 26, 2007 22:43:40 GMT -6
What Joel said
|
|
|
Post by trappnman on Dec 27, 2007 7:29:01 GMT -6
what Joel says works fine in some soils.
Loam absolutely doesn't lend itself well to no pan covers or underalls.
It doesn't work at all with stored dry dirt. If you have ever used stored dry dirt in rain, then you would know, that stored dried dirt turns to liquid mud in rain, and you would know that stored dried dirt that turns to liquid mud, flows everywhere and that includes filling up the space 100% under the pan, and you would know, that when this mid hardens, the trap WILL NOT FIRE no matter how short the throw without either something under the pan, or a pan cover.
And that, as Bill Murphy says, is a fact.
|
|
|
Post by Zagman on Dec 27, 2007 7:51:28 GMT -6
Do you view a track inside the jaws differently than one just outside of the jaws? I dont......
I'd say that you'd be hard pressed to get a coyote paw fully inside the jaws without touching a pan or jaw or lever with the size traps I use.
On the trap and pattern and NOT hitting the pan, yes.
Grey fox and some reds inside the jaws completely and not touching the trap and/or pan, yes.
Based on the strength and size of traps I currently use, I have always felt that with steel screen and a partially committed paw, that I am still grabbing and holding onto a certain percentage of these dudes. Perhaps I am wrong.....
This year my problem with "misses" was rollers......I'd hate to tell you how many of those I had, but if'n I'd caught them that first time, I'd have 12 or more coyotes right now.
Now, I know I probably caught a few of those, but I cannot prove it, so they still go down as a MISS.
Now, everyone can tell me I am using the wrong lure or bait or whatever......I use the same stuff year in and out.....and believe rollers get down to the individual animal. I just ran more traps, for a longer period, and the percentages went up accordingly.
Still, it's a major source of irratation for me......if they get pinched a little on the roll, might be tough to catch that same animal at that spot.
A track on the pattern does no damage to the animal and I may very well catch him at that spot. Still, I hate letting a committed animal (track on pattern) escape.....could get hit on the road, shot by a deer hunter, or trapped by another trapper before I get another crack at the lucky SOB.
Zagman
|
|
|
Post by Bob Jameson on Dec 27, 2007 8:23:50 GMT -6
Any canine has the potential to roll or attempt to rub on certain odors present. They all possess that potential urge just is their nature as is with your dog. Some of those interpreted roll set offs may have been foot throw outs unless there was obvious shoulder or apparent hackle hair in the jaws. Then of course the roll deduction would be the logical conclusion.
I dont get many confirmed rolls but I get calls from other trappers that do and in most cases they have used too much strong lure/bait at a set or placed it in an inviting accessable position which would promote easy rubbing or rolling attempts. A high odor concentration coming from a small area, such as a dirt hole, a projection of sorts, face application on a rock,bone or a block of wood containing that of skunk, civit and a meat derivitive that may be past its prime age and gone in another direction can induce rolling a high percentage of the time. Lesser amounts applied or a different application position such as under the rock face etc. of that same product may stop the rolling or reduce it significantly.
|
|
|
Post by trappincoyotes39 on Dec 27, 2007 8:26:19 GMT -6
tman I have no idea how to go back and find your posted pics! I'm trying to see how you say screen increases your catch, when I know your big on guiding and using montanas, they are more like a #2 sized trap than most common #3's used today. As mentioned paws prints inside the jaws, with 6-10 not getting caught? I'm trying to figure how this happens knowing your setting techniques? Thats all. If you mean skitish coyotes not commiting to the pan and tracking up your pattern outside the jaws? I also work coyotes at all times of the year on the same places year in year out. I change lure types and brands and also set's to keep things fresh. Is it needed? Who knows but I do it and it works on a yearly rotation, I keep records of those things. If you could find your set pics you posted I could better explain my hard line question. I'm not saying my way is 100% right for everyone, but I like to figure things out as to why this or that would be better given circumstances described, is that a bad thing?
|
|
|
Post by trappnman on Dec 27, 2007 8:37:07 GMT -6
see Randy- this is what is uncalled for-
Where did I state 6 to 10?
Why exaggerate what I said? To you need to exaggerate to try to make your point?
I said I noticed 6 this year. Thats tracks partially on the jaws, and inside the jaw with either a very small coyote or fox (I won't begin to pretend I can tell the difference with one small track in soft dirt)
Your comment on my "hardlines" was not based on any pics you saw, but ...well.... I guess accuracy like the "6 to 10"
look through archives, scroll down the back pages- easy to find if yo are determined to try to prove your thought- and I encourage you do so so- Because I can tell you this- 99% of those out there would consider me too anal on guiding and blending on flat sets.
And yes- step downs have hard lines- thats the point.
Is it wrong to try to figure things out?
no, of course not.
But it is wrong, to assume that because others don't have the success or failure that you do (generic you) with a given item or methods- that they are doing it wrong and/or need improvement i their skills?
No- THAT just means they (generic they) do it different.....
One of the wisest things I've heard on trapping was told to me by BK when discussing BE sets, vs blind sets. His comment...
"Steve, I think we are catching the same mink"
Think about that for a minute.....
|
|
|
Post by trappincoyotes39 on Dec 27, 2007 8:46:52 GMT -6
OK Tman good day. I have to go spend time with my family. Ma get's upset when I take vacation leave and spend it on here LOL>
|
|
|
Post by trappnman on Dec 27, 2007 8:52:24 GMT -6
TC- enjoy your vacation-
Maybe next summer We can get together during Rally week- I'd love to see your methods and you can see how I do it.
|
|