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Post by Bigfoot on Dec 24, 2007 21:24:53 GMT -6
Who has epieremented with them ? what were the results ? Where can you buy steel screen ?
I tryed aluminum screen didn't like how they fit over the pan .was wondering how much different steel would be
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Post by Bob Jameson on Dec 24, 2007 21:44:48 GMT -6
Tried them and dont like them.
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Post by robertw on Dec 24, 2007 21:52:18 GMT -6
There is no other pan cover that works as well as steal screen. If there was anything better I would be using it.
Steel screen works better than any other product across the nation in every soil type and condition for #3 and larger sized traps.
If anyone thinks they have something better I would gladly like to know what it is.
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Post by Bob Jameson on Dec 24, 2007 21:59:29 GMT -6
Experienced too many pull out loses due to the expanded pan area. The purpose of the trap pan size is to allow the animal to center its foot as best it can before firing the trap. Employing a screen enlarges this area and can throw or cause poor catches due to its function. Experience with them told that story well. Others like and use them but I would not recommend them due to the results I have had. I been around the block a time or two and did give them a good shot.
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Post by robertw on Dec 24, 2007 22:16:10 GMT -6
With all due respect....I suggest you try them again.
Steal screen makes me money.
As for "poor catches due to it's function"... You must be experiencing trap failure from weak traps. I can guaruntee you will catch more animals with steal screen than you will with with out it!
If you have a better alternative I would appreciate learning what it is.
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Post by Bigfoot on Dec 24, 2007 22:22:50 GMT -6
Robert how do you set yours up ? where do you get your screen?
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Post by robertw on Dec 24, 2007 22:29:07 GMT -6
I buy it in the bulk in rolls. I tape it up good with Duct tape and cut with the metal chop saw to the desired width then cut to elngth with shears or scissors.
I stack and bundle them in piles or packets of 24-25 and boil them in my dye water. They are then packaged in zip lock bags to help keep them organised.
Hopefully this answered your questions??
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Dec 25, 2007 9:15:55 GMT -6
Robert try coffee filters! I to have tried screen and agree with Bob J, you have too much pan area in effect and you end up with more than desirable holds with that expanded area! If I wanted a pan that was as large as the spread I would use such thing, also glen sterling built some of his traps with an over sized pan for Ogorman Glen built some but hated them and never used much of them either.
With the proper pan diameter one doesn't need screen a pan that is centered as best as it can inside the jaws, for bridgers I add PIT and they have done wonders! Far better IMHO than the standard pan.
RobertW use guiding and you won't need to worry about having to enlarge the kill area of the pan! I have no problems with filters and they do not cost me any coyotes anymore than anything else out there as well.
Night latching in one form or the other and running pan tension will leave you with alot of great holds, guiding brings it all up to another level. I use only powered up traps 4 coiled or sterlings, so not a weak trap issue. Why would I want the trap to fire when a coyotes foot isn;t centered? Guiding helps with that aspect along with making the pan the most inviting place to step.
AS one fellow trapper puts it, he wants to guide the body and direct the foot! Merry Christmas have to open gifts!
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Post by motrapperjohn on Dec 25, 2007 9:22:14 GMT -6
There is different weights of alumininum screen some much stiffer than others, about the same as steel. I use the heavy aluminum, never used the steel.
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Post by trappnman on Dec 25, 2007 9:31:50 GMT -6
each to their own- you can have coffee filter, waxed paper, toilet paper, etc
I'll take screen every time if I want a pan cover. The only problem I've ever had with the screens, is when the weren't cut wide enough. When that occurred, I couldn't get them to lie flat enough, they need to lock down under the jaws.
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Post by Bob Jameson on Dec 25, 2007 10:22:41 GMT -6
Like in all things with trapping each has their own preference that guides them from their own individual experiences. I am open to better or more efficient ways and if I feel they have merit I will give them a try and I did.
I ran 80 plus traps the first check week and lost 4 cats and 2 coyotes from pull outs right in front of me as I pulled up or approached to kill. Just a coincidence, I dont think so. Just a bit much to swallow at that point. All traps set as I always set with traps of good strength, good cover and all set with screens.
After the last pull out I had enough and I reset all in the next two days with coffee filters, leaves and wax paper . Never experienced any further pull outs there after. this is not saying pullouts cant occur because they can and will at times with any pan cover or not set up system at times. Just how it is.
I lost alot of money that week due to what I knew was the result of poor foot placement. No doubt as a direct result of pre mature firing when the foot wasnt in a good position.I also experienced a number of misfires most likely that were throw outs due to poor foot placement.There is no other way to interpret these occurances.
As stated I know good trappers that I respect that do well with them and like the screens but I dont see me using them again as a result of my poor results. I experimented years ago with larger pans as TC38 mentioned but in the long run found me going back to a more conventionial pan size and found my niche. Hence when going to screens I had my doubts initially but of course with all the hype about them you think others know more then your experience has taught you. Just isnt so in my case.
Going in another direction, I know those that even cut the stock pans in half in hopes of ensuring a good center placement before firing the trap. Ray Milligan and I spoke of this many years ago and know he made these modifications years ago to his traps. And so the cycle continues.....
Merry Christmas to all........
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Post by robertw on Dec 25, 2007 11:11:02 GMT -6
BobJ,
Not arguing your results on your traplines, I just do not experience this type of stuff on my line at all.
TC38, There propbably is not another trapper on this forum that is more anal about putting the foot on the pan than I am. Foot placement, guiding and ect are not a problem for me. My success rate is excellent and my miss rate is nearly non-existant
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Post by bankrunner on Dec 25, 2007 11:26:22 GMT -6
BobJ, Not arguing your results on your traplines, I just do not experience this type of stuff on my line at all. TC38, There propbably is not another trapper on this forum that is more anal about putting the foot on the pan than I am. Foot placement, guiding and ect are not a problem for me. My success rate is excellent and my miss rate is nearly non-existant I will have to agree with Robert on that statement about foot placement. Spent a week at Trappers College learning from him. I don't get much time to run a coyote line and I would rather chase coon, mink, and rats for the $$$ factor. I have confidence in the way I make sets for canines, you make so that coyote has only one spot he wants to put his foot... on your pan. |
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Dec 25, 2007 12:39:58 GMT -6
Well then save yourself some time,money and cutting and leave those wire screens behind robert! I have a very low miss rate as well, and my success rate is pretty darn good as well. Just using another way to do it and not having to spend hours cutting pan covers and more money on things that get chewed on. I run to the grocery store and buy 1,000 filters at a time and I go set traps!
Each to his own, but is screen mandatory for high catch rates and good foot placement NO! That would be the OG line of thought and it don't hold water.
Alot can be in the trap, look at a sterling and see how well the pan is in place between the jaws and then I also take a coyote leg and use it with other pans and how it could fall into place, thats one of the reasons I like the sterlings, most poorer holds are due to my lack of keeping the gun notch filed clean and crisp, and with bridgers I like the PIT pans again just fits really nice with the size of the coyotes foot inside the jaws. With these traps zero need to increase the kill area with screen and would serve to zero benefit, been there tried it.
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Post by trappnman on Dec 25, 2007 13:48:34 GMT -6
I don't think it mandatory- but I do think it gives you canines you wouldn't of had. I love to guide- but I still on bigger traps have that occasional track inside the jaws. Now- did I get that same coyote the next night or the next trpa. Sure- a lot of them I suspect and some I know via snow.
but evne so- I know I had at least 6 xs where I had tracksinside the pattern, that missed the pan. With screens, he would have been there. I have no trouble with pullouts due to screens, and can't see why, with proper screen use, this could become a problem. if he has enough foot in the pattern to make the screen fire the trap, enough of his foot is there and he WILL be there in the morning.
Bob- I'm real surprised you don't like the screens. Not so much you don't like them, because thats an individual preference, but that you felt you had problems with them. I wonder if , overall over a year with 50% use of each, that your % would be the same viv a vis pullouts in both.
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Post by Bob Jameson on Dec 25, 2007 14:41:37 GMT -6
Historically I have few misses, like others I will get an occasional flipped trap it happens. I am successful with my methods of pan covering and dont wish to experiment further in that area.There is no doubt in my mind that the screens were the direct result of some misses and pullouts. I did home tests in the spring as this field experience haunted me. So with the same equipment in actual sets using a coyote leg/foot the results revealed several scenarios. Thus proving to me the high probability of misses, toe catches and consequently pullouts were very real and not something amiss in my set ups.You can guide to a great degree and suggest stepping routes but animals step in the wrong place at times and that is how it is.
I prefer a near bullseye foot placement and dont want a trap to fire before its time or prior to positive commitment.I respect others success with their methods but I also have to walk my walk with my experience. I detest pullouts realizing they occur at times but multiples in the same week is a far cry from the norm and for me.
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Post by thebeav2 on Dec 25, 2007 14:53:15 GMT -6
Well I use to have more sprung traps then I liked. I was using 1.75s sized traps. I figured the pan was to close to the jaw edge. I changed out the 1.75 pans with 1 1/2 sized pans I believe they were 1 1/2 B&L. Now I had a smaller pan that was closer to the center of the jaws. I had less sprung traps after that.
I also tried screen on those 1.75 sized traps. the results were the same, to many sprung traps. Now On larger sized traps like 4s and 3s I didn't have that problem when using screen.
Way back before most of our times Old Morris Oberto had himself a beaver trap, the pan was just a solid metal bar It was a good set up the beaver needed to have It's whole foot centered In the trap before It would be sprung. The trap might have missed some beaver but you didn't have any sprung traps or traps with a toe in them.
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Post by mostinterestingmanintheworld on Dec 25, 2007 14:55:53 GMT -6
I never was able to figure out steel or aluminum screen, it always wanted to flip the loose jaw up or fire the trap.
I think I understand the concept but I just never had the patience to buckle down and make it work.
About the time I was screwing around with them I quit canines and buried traps so it didn't make much difference.
I had the same experience with cable stakes, just seemed like to much bother and in the rocky country I trap I don't think they would work all the time. Seems like my soil is either of two extremes, either pure rock or sand 10 feet deep.
Joel
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Post by trappnman on Dec 25, 2007 17:14:47 GMT -6
beav- 1.75s- YES.
aren't you the one that put 1.5 pans on? if so- why did you think a screen would wrok.
On traps like the 1.75- no, don't ever use a screen IMHO.
On #3 and 4s- love them
Could I get by without them? sure- but why when I'm like BobJ in that I've tried the lot also- and for me, screens worked best.
I think so much has to do with methods as to why we like or dislike something. Covering, type of set, etc
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Dec 25, 2007 20:50:55 GMT -6
Tman, you have foot tracks inside the jaws and your still having misses you can count? I would try different guiding or better lure/bait or attractor. The amount of times I have found foot prints inside the jaws of a sterling or #3 bridger without gettting caught? 1 out of 500 or more? So very rare with coyotes. Sure rabbits/deer but not many coyotes tracks inside the jaws without being there when I get there!
I guess trap placement in relation to the hole or attractor? Your really finding enough coyote tracks inside the jaws of a montana that you thought wire screen has benefitted you?
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