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Post by trappnman on Sept 23, 2007 14:41:47 GMT -6
It seems that the difference in urine as far as useful to trapping, comes when the urine is used naturally for marking by that animal.
mink urine, coon urine, etc hasn't really caught on big with trappers of those furs. I don't know of any big numbers man on say coon or mink, that uses urine much if at all.
Perhaps there are some out there- so if so, please respond.
Do cats mark territory? housecats do- but I think its just the toms-because they seem to be the only ones that piss high up on stuff marking it- usually a glandy type odor also.
If you as a canine trapper stopped using urine entirely- how much if any would it matter?
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Post by cameronk on Sept 23, 2007 15:02:14 GMT -6
Steve,
Look at how urine was originally marketed to trappers. Years ago urine was marketed more as a fear remover/confidence builder, not really an attractor. Therefore many trappers from years ago used it at every set, regardless of the bait and lure used. It was jsut believed that without it there supersmart canines would not work a set.
You mention mink urine. Many old trappers regarded mink as being super smart, almost canine like. They dubbed them as having great noses and being super scared of humans. Again some of these old timers took to using mink urine just like the canine trappers of the day were using it as a fear remover/confidence builder, not so much as an attractor. Through the years we have come to see that mink aren't as smart or cautious as once believed. Today you don't hear much about mink urine being used by mink trappers, although you do hear of some canine trappers using it ocassionally for a change up.
I know I use it a lot when trapping canines. So do many other people. I think this comes more from habit than anything. I think canine trappers could scale back there use of urine and still be successful.
Cameron
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Post by bobwendt on Sept 23, 2007 15:08:27 GMT -6
I challenge everyone to squirt a shot of dark froze out pee down a dirthole and use NOTHING ELSE at all. get ready for an eye opener. I could tell you but everyone would swear I was badmouthing yellow pee and pushing the real deal, lol, and I would be! but don`t take my word for it, try it yourself. most folks that don`t value pee for canines is because they never used decent pee, just rot gut or colored water. do my test and then report back.
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Post by Steve Gappa on Sept 23, 2007 15:34:27 GMT -6
I value pee- I must- I use enough of it!
but wouldn't a good gland lure and bait- take as many?
I'm not saying it does- just pondering....
good points cameron2
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Post by DaveM on Sept 23, 2007 15:43:18 GMT -6
I think a canine trapper could use no pee, or niothing but pee, and still catch 90% maybe more.
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Post by bobwendt on Sept 23, 2007 16:01:08 GMT -6
aah, but 90% of what? 90% of 25, 90% of 100, or 90% of a 1,000?
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Post by markymark on Sept 23, 2007 16:23:24 GMT -6
I do think urine use is overrated- not so much the use, but what it's properties. The reason a dog marks its territory frequently- is because urine quickly dissipates and looses any real qualities. Pee is pee after a day or two.
Steve you must have changed your mind in a year.
When the mink are rutting I give some of my hole sets a shot. Grigg used allot of mink urine late in the winter.
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Post by Steve Gappa on Sept 23, 2007 16:27:20 GMT -6
same point Marky- same point. I do think that urine loses it characteriscs after a few days- but thats opinion, not fact. And its also why I asked if urine effectiveness increased with animals that use urine to mark.
Which is why I asked if gland bait would catch as many.
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Post by coyotewhisperer on Sept 23, 2007 16:39:37 GMT -6
I think using good pee helps alot on coyotes and bobcats.
I've smelled that concentrated pee bob uses and wow is all i got to say.
Marky who do you recommend for having quality mink pee or are you using bladder pee?
Jeff
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Post by walkercoonhunter(Aaron L.) on Sept 23, 2007 16:44:04 GMT -6
well i for one havent used but about a pint of urine in about 4yrs..last year i didnt use a drop and my catch was still the same as the last years catch...but then again i run 100% dirt holes also...and for gland lure i dont use much of it either....but this year im going to use alot more of both simply because im gonna be setting more scent post and flat sets....and im going to give some homemade gland lure a try...and if it works as well as bob says.....it will be my only lure i use....
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Post by bobwendt on Sept 23, 2007 16:44:54 GMT -6
if you guys would just do the test, but use good meat fed winter pee. freeze it out if you want the real still digging a year later deal. when I hear "over rated", "loses it after a day", etc. I know you guys have NEVER used the real deal yet, just the see thru banan yellow kid stuff. don`t feel bad, I only know of few sources for it in the whole world, at least on a commercial basis.
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Post by roberts on Sept 23, 2007 17:00:43 GMT -6
IMO, the liquid that a animal excrets is pee or urine. if its k9, winter collected and meat fed, OK I can see where it is better. when you humanly do something to it, age, condense or add anything, IMO it is no longer pee or urine. it is lure
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Post by walkercoonhunter(Aaron L.) on Sept 23, 2007 18:12:35 GMT -6
all i know is im gonna give it a try this year bob...and i have some very good 30+ yr old frozen out urine thats all muskrat fed pee....i find my self going to my lure ref..just to open it up and smell it a few times a week....lol...oh and im going to give those aged(long time 30 + years) glands a try like we talked about....lol....
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Post by bobwendt on Sept 23, 2007 18:13:57 GMT -6
you need to mail all that to me to "test" for you.
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Post by walkercoonhunter(Aaron L.) on Sept 23, 2007 18:34:40 GMT -6
NO bob i will test this stuff out...i dont want to be the death of ya....lol...hell you would have fox from other states lineing up waitin to get into your traps if i mailed it to ya....lol...i just made the mix the other day and have been stirring every day 2 times a day.....
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Post by Decatur on Sept 27, 2007 18:43:57 GMT -6
Charles Dobbins says to not use any urine at a dirt hole set with a food tape bait. He claims that he has watched fox, and that they never pee where they have cached food. Thoughts?
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Post by markymark on Sept 27, 2007 19:25:12 GMT -6
Marky who do you recommend for having quality mink pee or are you using bladder pee?
I have two mink pets now. I had purchased some at a convention labeled Marsiada. I was using bladder also. The stuff I am saving myself blows the bottled stuff away. I also have not had these guys through the winter yet. But from reading everything I can you need to give them a strict diet of fish, meat and grain. They like fruit as much as dinner left overs even cake.
One thing I have learned is Cotton mink are not genetically bred into a mink that is a wives tale. It is from being anemic due to an all fish diet.
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Post by trappnman on Sept 28, 2007 6:44:37 GMT -6
marky- I disagree on the cotton mink- but would love to read any research that confirms your statement.
The reason I say I disagree- is the % of cotton mink out of certain areas. Hard to believe that a couple of mink in a watershed are cotton, eating the same diet as the hundreds that aren't.
and certain watersheds- containing the exact same type of feed- have more cottons and some areas, with the same type of streams, feed- have none.
But as I say, my thought is logial guesswork, so any research could change my mind.
As far as Charlie Dobbins thought- I have no doubt its true- I also have no doubt it matters at all- because a dirthole, is not even close to how a canine "catches" food. So an artificial cache set (dirthole) isn't natural.
and we all know- urine works very well at dirtholes.
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Post by markymark on Sept 28, 2007 11:59:41 GMT -6
Dr. DeWayne Walker, D.V.M. from 3M explained this to me. He sits on the furm faming org in your state and also John Hopkins.
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Post by ohiyotee on Sept 28, 2007 15:55:27 GMT -6
Eric Space related the same fact in his fur farming article, his family were in the fur ranch business for many years.
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