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Post by Wright Brothers on Jul 29, 2007 8:18:17 GMT -6
Guess I ruined my concoction right off the bat. Had grey fox glands soaking in real grey urine, added muskrat, coyote, and mink glands. Added that to one year buried meat, stirred, covered with good urine, and buried it again. This stuff is on it's third or fourth year in the making. Was going to add a little castor but will take advise here and use that separate, same with skunk.
From what you and other guys are saying, we should keep these things separate. I was, until late night skinning and the goodies just started getting thrown in the same jar. I bet it'll work, and I'll continue to use store bought lure also.
Mad scientist wannabe I am haha.
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Post by Wright Brothers on Jul 29, 2007 8:26:54 GMT -6
Just want to add. Nobody wanted to get up with this kind of info, then came CR US. Thanks a lot guys.
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Post by robertw on Jul 29, 2007 8:35:14 GMT -6
Wrightbros.
What you have concocted may work well, for you.
I am only offering advice from my experiences and...I have ruined more glands than I should have. I would have been light years ahead if I would have had someone explain to me what I now know.
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Post by trappnman on Jul 29, 2007 8:43:49 GMT -6
its tough always re-inventing the wheel isn't it?
"if I only knew then what I know know..."
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Post by bobwendt on Jul 29, 2007 9:43:14 GMT -6
wright, the stuff will work great, but was probably a waste of grey glands . in te case of greys, no harm done as they just don`t respond to their own kind glands like say a red fox does. the reason reds repeat in the same circle the more you catch the the more you catch. often for greys and coyotes the reverse is true, you need to move over or allow cool down time. not always, but often. for that reason I don`t save grey fox or coyote anals, or at least not for the use as typically one would red fox glands for reds, or cat glands for cats.
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Post by bobwendt on Jul 29, 2007 9:46:19 GMT -6
ps, yes, need the galls, it breaks down fatty tissue to a nice mellow base. same thing your gall does to piece of fried chicken or bacon supreme lardo ba-donkey butt burger that sits in your belly
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Post by Wright Brothers on Jul 29, 2007 10:20:56 GMT -6
The grey glands wont work for greys I have heard before. Do you live market guys collect grey urine, seperate, mixed, at all?
What Bob said in post 24 about greys needing to cool off mirrors my experience to a tee. . Reds I get are more like incedental on my lines these days, it was not that way in my youth, reds were majority, now a minority it seems. I'm in the West NW side, not SEast. Always like the greys better, even before they took the price hike.
That concocted mess I have will be used in big dirty flashy stinky sets, or two, with other suttle sets surounding. I'll try and make a post with the results this fall. Been trying many ways to catch the coon and others BEFORE they get to my K9 sets.
Sorry if getting off the topic,
Gettin the itch here, if it weren't so hot I'd cook some traps today.
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Post by bobwendt on Jul 29, 2007 11:04:09 GMT -6
just a fwiw, I know of no one collecting grey fox urine in commercial quantities, yet thousands of gallons sell annually, like bobcat pee, and every dealer lists it. so don`t think just because someone is a dealer that he is anymore than any other kind of shop keeper. I did collect 50 gallons of grey pee once, so it can be done. live greys never sell for more than about $25-$40, rarely $50 , so no one sells them alive except out of the back of the truck the day caught for little or nothing and no vaccinations, no matter feet chopped off, just plain no matter. there is little demand as all they do is run in tight circles. some are used in puppy pens but no serious runner has any interest in a grey fox except as a thrill kill for some bubba butts. now at $50 hides at least those jerks won`t get anymore of them. oh, who you ask is doing this? your fellow trappers, that`s who!
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Post by briankroberts on Jul 29, 2007 14:40:42 GMT -6
There's a lot to be said about making a gland lure, a lot has to do with the glands and what kind of animal they come from, there are a few dealers out there that offer a coon gland lure, this is mainly a Gall gland lure.
The Predator gland lures I make do contain both glands and gall/bile, plus a small amount of wild urine, but nothing is rotted and it all smells like the south end of a north bound critter.
Be careful what you add as a true gland lure is a very simple mix that only varys in how it is put up, not what is in it.....B.....
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Post by romans117 on Jul 29, 2007 15:03:07 GMT -6
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Post by trappngreys on Jul 29, 2007 20:22:30 GMT -6
TG, If I were you and I'm not, I would hesitate about adding the beaver castor to the cat glands. You can always use a castor based lure at the set in conjunction with the gland lure. You have some valuable glands/ lure be careful not to ruin it. Just my .02 worth. I was thinking that mixing the castors in would make it like a one for all lure. I was only gonna mix up a couple oz just for a test. Why is it the off the shelf cat gland lures smell nothing like what I have? I just let them turn slightly grey then grinded them. like I said they smell like a cats azz not some rotted meat. I have tried 5 or 6 different brands of cat glands maybe I haven't tried the right one yet. |
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Post by bobwendt on Jul 30, 2007 4:52:09 GMT -6
you just asked a question and answered the the question, correct I might add! I`ve never seen a commercial lure made with the care and ingredients one can do himself. it`s all about the $. everyone made fun of johhny thorpe and his $10 lures. I can tell you I wouldn`t sell what I make for $10 and ounce, and would gladly pay it if I couldn`t make it myself anymore. like you have only 4 oz of ground anals that ypu might expansd to 8 wih some base like oil, but no filler. I`d say the average lure seller might get 100 oz or more out of that 4 oz you have. your caster, don`t mix it, rub it next to the glands lure, maybe 6" away. have 2 smells there. maybe a third smell of skunk 2 feet high in a tree or weed close by. add in some feathers or fur and a big fresh dirt area. set on a track and guaranteed, you`ll catch a cat! p.s. if you think I`m all wet on the commercial lures, just place an ad wanting to buy just one, ONE, gallon of cat anals and no filler. offer $500 and see you will get no takers, none. so where you think a large lure manufacturer gets his cat anals? I`ll tell you where, the 20 mixed in with a gallon of foot pads, fat, intestines, livers and galls, lymph nodes and probably 4 dead `possums and a tire in there too. that`s where and why MOST smell like rotted meat. trust yourself, you are in possession of some good stuff.
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Post by jwr64 on Jul 30, 2007 5:54:13 GMT -6
Yes, the skunk oil you got from him. Just don't forget the MAGIC ingredient is the gall bladers! The belly fat and skunk oil will all seperate out if you do not add the gall bladders or fluid from them. I would also be carefull about how much aging or tainting you do...Several on here will argue with this but...It is my oipinion that you will loose a lot of odor by letting things break down to far. |
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Post by jwr64 on Jul 30, 2007 5:58:14 GMT -6
Yes, the skunk oil you got from him. Just don't forget the MAGIC ingredient is the gall bladers! The belly fat and skunk oil will all seperate out if you do not add the gall bladders or fluid from them. I would also be carefull about how much aging or tainting you do...Several on here will argue with this but...It is my oipinion that you will loose a lot of odor by letting things break down to far. so should I add sodium benzonate to keep them from breaking down? I have enough froze out clean cat pee to cover them. |
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Post by Bob Jameson on Jul 30, 2007 6:24:14 GMT -6
I cant speak for other formulators I can only speak for my work. There may be some that doctor the glands so to speak to such a degree as 4oz. of active to 100 ounces of a finished gland product. However I do not and have not done that in my life.Several gallons of glands with no filler, just the anal vent with short attached intestine,reproductive organs and bladders go into a 5 gal.bucket of gland lure and other actives the way I do it. But once they are gone they are gone for that season.
I agree with the cost end per ounce as the cost to produce such a high gland percentage lure is expensive for me. Justification of $10.00 an ounce on well built gland lures is easy to do. Some products are not as expensive to build but glands are becoming more and more costly to buy and to find in adequate volume.Then to find those that know how and what to cut with minimal clean up before processing is yet another issue.
With repects to anals only , I dont know any commercial formulator that could reasonably afford to buy and sell them without use of the reproductive organs and bladders except for personal use in small quantities as that which is discussed.But by no means are these gland parts filler or considered filler by myself or others in the trade.
We have had this discussion in an earlier thread.If anyone is throwing away the reproductive organs of any specie and bladders I will gladly compensate anyone for these items. I have no commerdial use for what I deem filler items such as foot pads, ear butts, livers, galls ,intestine, stomachs or other body parts not associated with the immediate rear end of an animal for use in a true gland lure. But some I am sure do. These other byproducts mentioned can be utilized quite nicely for use in other formulas such as call lures and food lures etc.
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Post by trappngreys on Jul 30, 2007 13:23:50 GMT -6
Yes Bob I like several different smells at my cat sets too. I have had very limited success on "store bought" cat gland lures. This is why I decided to make my on lure to begin with. I was totally suprised how mine turned out, it really opened my eyes.
One of my favorite lures has castor and other glands in it.
I think I will give Mr. Jameson's lure a try. There are a couple more out there that i have been told to try.
I am still gonna use a couple oz to make up a different lure.
Anyone not saving their glands don't know what they are missing out on. I will probably skin a few more yotes this coming season to save up some of their glands as well.
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Post by stickbowhntr on Jul 30, 2007 15:13:09 GMT -6
Bob J, if I read this right you don't agree that the galls are necesary to breakdown the glands as a few others here have stated, am I correct?
you stated:
" I have no commerdial use for what I deem filler items such as foot pads, ear butts, livers, galls ,intestine, stomachs or other body parts not associated with the immediate rear end of an animal for use in a true gland lure"
or did I miss your point?
NOW I AN CONFUSED.
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Post by Bob Jameson on Jul 30, 2007 17:33:31 GMT -6
Glands or any tissue in general will breakdown or age as a natural process when any flesh type material is not preserved and exposed to steady breakdown temperatures.Some prefer the use of galls I dont use that method personally.There is no confusion on my part . I have never used gall except in coon type gland lure formulation. The gall will not make or break a formula in my experience. Active gall discharge will to a degree break down fat. I dont use fat in a gland formula either as some do. Whether it is rendered fat oil or trimmed fat.It is a matter of formulation preference.
I am sure both methods would work just fine as an attractant if the formula is built well.There are many ways to do things with respects to this topic. Much like many different sets will catch a fox, coyote or cat.Dont get lost in differing opinions and methods.
I have found the best way to do what I do to hold the truest odor of a glandular product. Others have their ways. Try different ways and see what works the best. It took me many years to develop my methods and they have worked well. Experiment and find what works best for you.
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Post by lynxcat on Jul 30, 2007 17:44:01 GMT -6
I cant speak for other formulators I can only speak for my work. There may be some that doctor the glands so to speak to such a degree as 4oz. of active to 100 ounces of a finished gland product. However I do not and have not done that in my life.Several gallons of glands with no filler, just the anal vent with short attached intestine,reproductive organs and bladders go into a 5 gal.bucket of gland lure and other actives the way I do it. But once they are gone they are gone for that season. I agree with the cost end per ounce as the cost to produce such a high gland percentage lure is expensive for me. Justification of $10.00 an ounce on well built gland lures is easy to do. Some products are not as expensive to build but glands are becoming more and more costly to buy and to find in adequate volume.Then to find those that know how and what to cut with minimal clean up before processing is yet another issue. With repects to anals only , I dont know any commercial formulator that could reasonably afford to buy and sell them without use of the reproductive organs and bladders except for personal use in small quantities as that which is discussed.But by no means are these gland parts filler or considered filler by myself or others in the trade. We have had this discussion in an earlier thread.If anyone is throwing away the reproductive organs of any specie and bladders I will gladly compensate anyone for these items. I have no commerdial use for what I deem filler items such as foot pads, ear butts, livers, galls ,intestine, stomachs or other body parts not associated with the immediate rear end of an animal for use in a true gland lure. But some I am sure do. These other byproducts mentioned can be utilized quite nicely for use in other formulas such as call lures and food lures etc. Bob, I do similar..I DO take the hock gland... the large one at the base of the ear... and about 1 in 5 of the female pads.... NOTHING else. I just taint them down VERY slightly... benzoate... then mix about 3-4oz w/ a gallon of urine.... the smell is 100% CAT... just like it is JUST after you catch a cat at a set. WHAT more could one want in a "gland lure"  100% cat smell IS gland lure isnt it??? lynx |
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Post by Bob Jameson on Jul 30, 2007 18:39:53 GMT -6
The volume of cat urine would be quite overpowering for that amount of gland but nonetheless would prove quite effective in nature. There are many ways to boost and build a gland lure.
You cant argue with success and effectiveness of a product. Cats or any animal for that matter are attracted and drawn to a number of criteria whether it is odor, eye appeal or sound.When you provide a combination of these elements it becomes very difficult for an animal to refuse a possible offering if the presentation is inviting and interesting enough and you make it readily accessable.
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