seed for next season

[flyguy]

We hear so much about leaving seed for the following season,I always lefted afew beaver and muskrats for seed but for coon,fox,and coyotes why? I seen it to many times where farms are trapped completly off no signs at all at the end of the season come next season just as many animals,I also know first hand of a few farm that wanted all the coons gone.we hunt them farms hard all season with dogs not just me but afew other houndsmen we took as many as 40 to 60 coons a year from these farms.So am I'm lucky for my areas to have so many animals or is it like this in other places?

[livefreeordie]

If surrounding areas have good populations of any critter, dispersal will fill in the void in most cases. Fisher and Marten may be exceptions to this rule, as are Wolverines, they just aren't as prolific, but for the critters you mentioned, I pound them as hard as I can, as long as I know the surrounding areas that I don't trap are going to help fill in.

[titan69]

I also feel that 9 times out of 10 other animals will move in & take over the area involved. Like Wayne stated, hit em hard. I don't worry about leaving seed, others will fill the slots.

[bobwendt]

my definition of seed is the season ran out. with as low a pressure as the furebearers get anymore, due to depressed markets, disease takes more than ever go to the fur market. no need saving any, in fact the more you can take the better off they are. anyone that has ever seen a mange epidemic in fox or coyote, or distemper frothy convulsing coons, or no greys from parvovirus, will never intentionally pull off to leave seed ever again. it will turn your stomach boys.

[garman]

I have seen the mange take alot of our fox and many of the coyotes also. About the same time I seen many many of our coon dead and dying of distemper. I also remember spring trappng rats and pulling them out dead from rat houses, partially because the dnr in the state I was living in had to tight of restrictions. I leave quote "no seed" and many many times a nice population is left. I remember not having rats when people quit trapping them and mother nature was left to take care of her own. Much more dramatic population trends. Bob I may be speaking out of turn and you can answer I should rephrase the coon above I seen dying had diahrhea all over there butts and very mattery eyes and very very skinny always thought it was probably distemper but maybe you can confirm for me. also skin on hides very thin and almost yellow.

[bobwendt]

yes, distemper. and when that goes thru not 1/2 or 2/3 die, but nearly all, in fact for all practical purposes one could say 100%. I`ve spring trapped rats on isolated ponds that in the fall would have yielded 40-50 rats. come spring all the old dens are there, no one trapped it ever, and you catch 4-6 . I`m convinced the rest winter killed, a total loss. this type thread is why I`mso upset our indiana dnr wants seasons on coyotes. you just can`t stockpile wildlife, and in the case of coyotes, why would anyone want to anyway? antis or ignorance. there are no other reasons, no choice #3

[garman]

These are one of the reasons I quit working for the IA DNR and looked for a career elsewhere. The state mangmt would not listen to those in the field, the biologists, would just override the studies and what was wanted buy the hunters/trappers which paid there salaries and do what they want, anyway I am off on a tangent.

[bobwendt]

you are dead on target for here in indiana and the fight the trappers have with our dnr now in regards to coyote seasons. basically the whole public and the consumptive users and the livestock industry and everyone wants them to remain year round open season, deregulated , as they are now with some minor stipulations. our dnr want them protected, i.e. seasons. it`s crazy.

[Bigfoot]

Bob "You need to protect them predators to control the deer so we can get rid of deer hunting ." There are alot of Idiots out there that think that way .l

[trappnman]

1) on animals with limited range, in limited habitat, you can for sure reduce the numbers substantially if not eliminate them. Rats are a good example on small streams. If you do what the adivce often is, run and gun along the entire stream, you will see a difference in the following year (s).

Beaver also. I have in effect, eliminated the beaver from my creeks- the farmers wanted them gone, and they are. not ot say a few don't move in, but only a few each year. It would take several years of not trapping, to get thme back to te previous populations.

2) Coon also. You can for sure knock down the local populations and keep them knocked down. There is always seed, but you can keep the populations at a lower level than by not trapping. Usually I see the big decrease after about year 3 on individual farms.

[livefreeordie]

I would agree on rats, if you are in marginal habitat areas, prime habitat seems to fill in rather quickly from surrounding areas. I did that to a few of my streams here, take 10-15 from a stretch of creek, nothing the next year, but the habitat is not what I would call prime by any stretch.
Same with Beaver, marginal habitats vs. prime habitat is the deal. Up in NH, we pounded the beaver as hard as we could, never saw a decrease, they would just come in from adjoining bogs.
For sure on Fisher, you can clean out an area, especially if taking a lot of females. When I used to trap them, as soon as I caught one female in an area, I would pull and move to another, you can hurt them bad.

[trappnman]

I never move on a stream. I find the best habitat, and trap that exclusively for rats. Then, the rats from the marginal areas, fill in and prosper (best habitat).

[billmeyerhoff]

Have to agree with Trappnman and livefreeordie on the species mentioned. I would add that easily trapped species are more susceptible to over harvesting, a category they also fall into.

With your permission Bob, I will be using your statement about not being able to stockpile wildlife when speaking to the ill informed. Got a good punch to it.

[bobwendt]

if habitat is so marginal that trapping hurts them, then none should be trapped, or conversly you might as well get all you can because there will never be any more no matter what. that is one reason I don`t buy this EXCUSE that western trappers use that "animals are so scarce they come by only once a week so I need 3 day ( or more) runs". b.s. any animal that scarce none should be taken, or just exterminate them and get it over with. fwiwe, even coyotes can be exterminated with year round diligent effort, witness most sheep country in wyoming- no coyotes at all except the winter migrator that gets tapped as quick as he is seen or leaves a track in the snow. but that is a good thing, not a bad thing. extermination is only a bad thing for greenies, not sheep ranchers

[trappnman]

I disagree Bob.

On a small stream, there seldom is good habitat along the entire length. You have your hotspots where the best habitat is. Like anything, even good habitat, only supports a finite amount of animals. The marginal areas, are the "seed".

A good rat trapper, could pretty much eliminate the rats if that was his desire. By only trapping the good habitat, one esures that the marginal habita rats, will move into that area.

and you can trap the same amount year after year- I'm approaching 20 years on some of these streams here.

Would rats eventually migrate in from other watersheds- sure...over time.

SAme with coon- the woods are full of them, and it would be hard ot set a trap and not take a few coon if even somewhat o nlocation- but...

there are hotspots for good, the very good habitat areas- these areas build up to incredible numbers at times, and they cna indeed be knocked back and kept back.

Extended checks, where legal, are a tool. I use it whenever I can.

Extended checks falls into the same catagory as live market trapping- I don't agree with running pens, and would never trap for the pens. But.... thats ME. Not the law, and not the opinion of all trappers. In fact, like extended checks, I think that you and I are the odd man out. So- I think we will just leave both subjects be.

[thorsmightyhammer]

For my style of trapping I generally stay at a spot until its no longer economically feasible.

I dont worry about "overtrapping" for the most part.

Fisher and beaver would be the only ones that I manage somewhat.

Its rare that I catch more than one fisher in a spot and will be real rare this year with a nine day season.

Beaver I'm like Wayne was in NH unless in agriculture areas. Than I try to manage somewhat. Some of the small ponds if I clean them out they may not have beaver for several years.

[livefreeordie]

Steven, I didn't have any agricultural area in NH, but the other type interconnected bogs that went for miles into the woods, I never had any decline. With the amount of nuisance calls F&G gave me every year, if anything, I would say they were increasing on me every year, no matter how hard I tried to keep them in check. I can see in areas where influx was limited, you could wipe an area out, they are pretty easy targets, as long as you don't screw up and educate them.

[thorsmightyhammer]

Yep Wayne, when I get into those type areas I'll smoke em. If I wipe the pond out they will be more next year.

Although the areas I trap arent as "big" as they appear. Alot of logging roads and fire breaks.

I'll hit em for a couple years running and move out.

[bobwendt]

gappa, I`m talking cats badger coyotes fox on land in arid west. not rats mink beaver coon dead in sets.

[trappnman]

thought you were talking general... .