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Secrets
Feb 21, 2006 15:18:26 GMT -6
Post by trappnman on Feb 21, 2006 15:18:26 GMT -6
I like the forums for many reasons- the love of debate and yes, semantics. As a learning tool, its unsurpassed. Information is given and retold and suddenly your thoughts are all over. I find myself more and more, although more than willing (as my post #s indicate) to post and help out, discuss- being a little reluctant to let out all my "secrets." I'll find I'm typing in a post, and then go " no...I don't need to tell that... " and delete it.
So a 2 part query- first, do you find yourself doing that? Being forthright in what you post, but not tellin' everything ya' knows? Holding out?
and second- are their secrets out there?
Some thing that there are none, that basically all trapping knowledge is already in use, all methods known.
Yet I do think there are little secrets. Maybe not exclusive to you, but certainly not part of most's knowledge base.
Things you do...things you see.... things you know.
Comments- and be honest now....
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Secrets
Feb 21, 2006 15:29:03 GMT -6
Post by primetime on Feb 21, 2006 15:29:03 GMT -6
You will get more Yes's then No's.
Why tell everything? Help, but don't let go of all your secrets at least until you are to old to trap anymore then - why not.
I'm guessing that most books that are out there fail to tell everything the given trapper does. He tells just enough to sell the book, but leaves out just enough to keep the secret a secret.
Tell the basics let them learn the rest.
Another question - do people find themselves telling less if they know local competition may be reading??
I was going to start the same post a few months ago, but didn't know what kind of feedback I would get - Glad you started it!
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Secrets
Feb 21, 2006 15:48:08 GMT -6
Post by trappnman on Feb 21, 2006 15:48:08 GMT -6
Without a doubt it does.
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Secrets
Feb 21, 2006 16:19:39 GMT -6
Post by conibear on Feb 21, 2006 16:19:39 GMT -6
I don't think there are secrets out there. I feel trapping is just like any other sport you are taught the basics and have to go with what you are taught and learn from other trappers like these trapping forums and the old hard work and hands on experience. I believe there are a few tricks to help the learning curve along the way. Just my 2 cents worth.
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Secrets
Feb 21, 2006 16:23:05 GMT -6
Post by gcs on Feb 21, 2006 16:23:05 GMT -6
I've found on the various forums ,that people are much more open to telling "secrets", or at least helpful hints, due to the fact that you sorta become "family", and they figure your not around their area, thus not competiton.
Now if someone local to me, asked me how, or where I catch MY commercial seafood products, I ain't saying SQUAT!, lol I don't care if it's a kid, old man or a cripple, let them learn like I did.
Making a living is serious buisness! "secrets" are guarded seriously! ;D
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Secrets
Feb 21, 2006 16:41:45 GMT -6
Post by NEPISIGUIT on Feb 21, 2006 16:41:45 GMT -6
Are their secrets, for sure. Do we give them out. Some people yes most no. But there are a lot of depends as to whether secrets are given out or not. Have a friend who he and his brother for example spent a huge sum of money travelling to the U.S.A. to learn how to catch coyote consistantly.They learned so good that my friend working on a Federal park capturing coyotes and collaring them was able to place bets that he could catch the same animal again. Not once but three times. He could do this anytime and still can . Does he tell anyone in this province or elsewhere? No way. But i understand where he is comming from and respect his secrecy for many reasons.Sounds like a good post or could be. Going to a local trappers meeting now but would like to comment later.
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Secrets
Feb 21, 2006 17:42:50 GMT -6
Post by Traveler on Feb 21, 2006 17:42:50 GMT -6
Yes......I know there is secrets out there.I use to share knowledge with people on the forums and would tell anybody what I knew.Not anymore.I've spent to much time and money to know what I know now.I still will help people,but I won't share everything I know.Sadly to many people today have no respect for those that have come before us.Other people have no respect for knowledge unless they pay for it. I still believe the best of the knowledge out there......you still have to pay for.
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Secrets
Feb 21, 2006 18:22:31 GMT -6
Post by chub618 on Feb 21, 2006 18:22:31 GMT -6
no secrets here as of yet to instill on somebody. but if i had a few secrets i would keep one or two under my hat!
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Secrets
Feb 21, 2006 18:33:53 GMT -6
Post by dj88ryr on Feb 21, 2006 18:33:53 GMT -6
I figure most of the guys on the boards know as much or more than I do about any particular topic, but I don't keep any secrets, anything I discover that works for me, I will freely share. Being introverted is a common denominator among trappers, we need to change that if our hertiage is to survive.
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Secrets
Feb 21, 2006 19:16:21 GMT -6
Post by musher on Feb 21, 2006 19:16:21 GMT -6
There are always a few secrets. I'm pretty mute about what I know about catching wolves - especially to guys around my part of the world. There main reason for this is that too many idiots want to kill all the wolves.
I think many "secrets" are withheld more out of omission than a desire to hold a secret. A prime example is the diagram Stef showed on setting up a bait pile. It isn't a secret and I would guess that the majority of guys who snare food piles here do it exactly that way. It's one of those "How else would you do it?"situations. However, I do understand how someone new to snaring would have the light bulb turned on and save themselves a few years of empty snares. It took a guy like Stef to figure out that this was extremely useful information to pass on.
There also exists a type of person that wants everything "gratos." They don't want to put in the effort and sweat required to master something. They want a trick or shortcut. It isn't very rewarding to give hard earned information to such people. On the other hand, look at the help given to young trappers that we know are hustling their fannies to catch stuff around the house. We know they're getting dirty, foregoing the gameboy for more traps, and spending as much time as possible on the line. It's fun to help them.
The great thing about this forum is that a member can get to know other members and decide what they want to say. There does not seem to be many free loaders. I'm certain there are lurkers but they don't get questions answered and they have to be extra patient. I don't have a problem with that because they are putting their time in just like the young, backyard trapper is. The one difference is that the kid will have a faster learning curve because they are actually studying the animals thereby teaching themselves as opposed to simply learning something secondhand.
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richc
Demoman...
Posts: 243
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Secrets
Feb 21, 2006 19:17:39 GMT -6
Post by richc on Feb 21, 2006 19:17:39 GMT -6
Secrets? I will tell you a secret. Here in western Iowa I can catch coyotes with traps dipped in speed dip, traps set with bare hands and traps with a two inch square piece of fiberglass insulation under the pan. This is contrary to Stanley Hawbaker's theory's, but then we have a lot of people traffic here, so coyotes are not quite so spooked of human odor. They seem to know where you are, and where you have BEEN. Scent post sets with lure ten inches up on the post and trap set ten inches out with trap bed that smells like nothing seems to work better than standard dirt hole set. I think coyotes learn to avoid dirt hole sets to a degree.
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Secrets
Feb 21, 2006 19:20:35 GMT -6
Post by cameron2 on Feb 21, 2006 19:20:35 GMT -6
Well, what is a "secret" is all relative to who is telling and who is asking. What is a secret to some folks is old hat to others. Used to be bobcat meat based baits were a secret; so was seal oil; so was a snare whammy. I don't think I have any secrets from real experienced trappers, but if I'm talking to a bunch of kids or ladies at the beauty shop, I look like a genius (then, and only then). Ever made coyote bait out of horse hoof frogs? It's still a secret to some folks.
And yet, every time I turn around I learn a new "secret." Have a new found friend that's somewhat of a tycoon these days, told me a secret of how to improve beaver castor as a cat scent. I promised not to tell, but it was a secret to me.
I remember when I first started trapping bobcats in my country. It was hit and miss, and then I read Slim Pederson's cat trapping book. The info in that book was so eye-opening to me, I felt like he was telling secrets. I had other guys, who knew I was only catching a few cats and then all of a sudden saw me show up at fur sales with armloads of them, ask how I caught so many cats. I just smiled at them, but no way was I telling them about Slim's book because I thought it was all secret stuff.
There is a well-known family in central Utah that has been successfully trapping for 4 generations that I know of. Twenty years ago I would have killed to get their "secret" scent recipe, because from what I had heard, the scent was so good all I had to do was put some near a trap and critters of all shapes and sizes would come to it like Pide Piper's kids. This family has turned down big money from professional lure makers who wanted this secret formula. Just recently I found out the secret formula. It only has 4 ingredients, all of which can be found in any trapper's supply catalog. But it's still a secret to most folks. Now I'm confident that I make a better scent that this stuff.
So what is a secret really depends on who is telling and who is asking. If Craig O'Gorman writes a book, he'll tell you he's keeping some stuff secret. Just depends.
The other thing is, you don't always feel like your secret will be appreciated. Jesus taught a great parable in the New Testament about how useless it was to cast your pearls before swine. He wasn't calling anybody a pig.
For example, if I tell my 12 year old son/trapping partner about the benefits of center swivelling verses end swivelling, it doesn't make much of an impression on him, because his mind never asked the question. Until he wants the knowledge, it's just wasted air on my part to tell him on my secrets. So your audience has to be ready to walk before you can start making them run.
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Secrets
Feb 21, 2006 19:38:42 GMT -6
Post by BK on Feb 21, 2006 19:38:42 GMT -6
There's very little I won't share if asked.
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Secrets
Feb 21, 2006 19:53:48 GMT -6
Post by RiverRat on Feb 21, 2006 19:53:48 GMT -6
Yes there are secrets some dont anit much but then again ..........
An yes if you know your local yolkes are reading what you type you may hold some back.
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Secrets
Feb 21, 2006 20:44:31 GMT -6
Post by plueger1 on Feb 21, 2006 20:44:31 GMT -6
Most of the time I pretty much tell what I know when it comes to furharvesting. Formulating lures however and my lips tend to tighten up. Trappers are coming up with little tricks all the time that help them produce more fur. Just my opinion. Dave
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Secrets
Feb 22, 2006 1:29:40 GMT -6
Post by NEPISIGUIT on Feb 22, 2006 1:29:40 GMT -6
I have reached a stage in my life that i no longer care to withhold any secrets dealing with trapping. I do however understand why there are secrets No one that i know starting out today has either the patience or desire to spend the time that i have over the years to have learned as little about the consistant capture of some animals.It has been trial and error most of the way to where i am now. A little info. gained here and there has helped. I truly believe that lack of that info is part of cause of lack of interest in trapping by younger generations.I think it has also helped to to educate a lot of critters.. It has been mentioned that we are all in this buisness together. I agree and guess that is the reason why some are willing to help in whatever way they can. Why is it like this? The word respect comes to mind.It is either there or it is not. When it is not trappers react. These are some of my views only and may not be shared by everyone, Guess getting older has mellowed me.
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Secrets
Feb 22, 2006 8:10:47 GMT -6
Post by trappnman on Feb 22, 2006 8:10:47 GMT -6
There's very little I won't share if asked.
Interesting statement......
meaning there is SOME you wouldn't share?
And thats me. I've told much of what I've learned and know, but have reached the stage where I no longer tell ALL.
In trapping, I'm always trying to find the missing piece of the puzzle. Sometimes you can be doing things for years, and BANG it hits you. What happens if I do THIS.... and the results amaze you.
If some little thing took me 20 years to figure out, is it fair to pass that info on to those that haven't "paid the price".
Beginning trappers, as has been pointed out, have a weath of information freely given to them at demos and on the internet in forums such as this. Much of this info was closely guarded "secrets" no long ago. Read the self taught post- look how many of us older trappers, were self taught. In our era, info was not freely given- it had to be gleaned.
I sometimes chuckle seeing posts like "I just started trapping. Please tell me how to trap otter, fox, coyotes and mink."
Baby steps...baby steps.
Back to the topic, SHOULD experienced trappers give away ALL their knowledge? Does it help...or does it hinder the development of new trappers?
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Secrets
Feb 22, 2006 8:28:19 GMT -6
Post by John Porter on Feb 22, 2006 8:28:19 GMT -6
I guess I am in the lower majority that doesn't hide anything. I don't post much due to the fact that I spend alot of time reading and realize most trappers on this site all ready know my finer points of trapping. This and the fact that I spend the majority of my trapping season chasing fishers and martens, which is 2 animals alot of other states don't harvest. To me, trapping isn't rocket science. If you put together a well formulated plan and stick to it, one should achieve great success. Do I think the new trapper benefits from all the information? Hell no, I think someone that is just starting out with no experience could become to over whelmed with information and feel humiliated when they don't rack up the huge numbers like alot of trappers do here. I feel just setting the new trapping in the right direction with a little knowledge and the correct tools would be better, instead of filling their heads with knowledge that once your out there--you will learn. John
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Secrets
Feb 22, 2006 8:35:21 GMT -6
Post by kevinupp on Feb 22, 2006 8:35:21 GMT -6
No I don't think that we should give out all our secrets. A helping hand? yes. Spoonfeeding? NO
I hate to use the term that I've "learned" any "secrets" from the forums and so on.
More along the lines of "learning" subtle differences from what I was doing.
One example of this would be your walk through set.
I made basically the same set. The only real difference was the positioning of the wobble holes. To me, it was a fairly large revelation.
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Secrets
Feb 22, 2006 8:39:04 GMT -6
Post by primetime on Feb 22, 2006 8:39:04 GMT -6
I am very secretive in all I do. I've been burned to many times not to be. BUT if I consider someone a friend, I don't view them as competition. I feel successful when they succeed and I feel failure when they fail. I will openly discuss where I caught something or how I caught it because I trust them - should I? Maybe not, but as humans we need to talk, share with people. It's who we are. (Why do so many criminals get caught? They need to brag or tell someone)
Friends or Competition --- What are we?
As these forums get bigger and more and more people get internet access we are only going to find that more and more people are the trappers that run the line amongst us. What then? Do we lie? Shut our mouths? Stop posting? What?
I've got people on this forum and other trapping forums that I know and that I know trap in and around me. Some I like and would call friends some I don't and would call competition. I'm sure some don't even know who I am - and I WANT TO KEEP IT THAT WAY. Why? Because I consider those people competition.
Out of this circle you would never know I was a trapper. I don't talk about it at the gas station or show up first to sell fur and chat. I lay low - fly under the radar. BUT here at this place I am a trapper and will help and discuss. Why? Because I know these people and trust these people.
***Forums of the future? 100 guys from 100 different areas on a closed forum? I could see it happening. (I call Bob Wendt and Steve Gappa, oh and Zagman to keep it really interesting)
Later - PT
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