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Post by trappnman on Sept 2, 2005 7:11:14 GMT -6
I know- never thought any different.
But since I was only one that listed a time, I thought I would make it clear that 20 minutes for me was 20 minutes.
It is amazing how people do fool themselves. I'm used to hunting/fishing with folks that measured and weighed. If you said a trout as 16 inches, and it looked smaller- honest to God someone would pull out a tape and measure.
When I used to be skinning by myself, I'd often run "time trials" to see how fast I could indeed skin. Not as fast as I thought LOL.
Thats like rats. It takes me, going easy say a minute and a half to skin one- maybe two on an old one. Many times I have tried to skin one in under a muminute- and it seems every time- something odd happens- And I have to slow down to correct it- sure, could rip it off and be under a minute...but might as well get the most I can for something and rats with holes aren't real valued.
Regarding weights. Read on another forum where a guy said his coyote averaged 48 lbs. From Indiana he was (and not Bob!). Either this guy got 1 coyote, or doesn't have a clue.
My coyotes here are not as big as say NY- biggest I ever got was 48. One year, weighed most of my coyotes for the dnr on their scale. Smallest was 22 lbs, biggest 38 with an average of about 28.
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Post by edge on Sept 2, 2005 7:16:22 GMT -6
I doubt I have done a yote in less than 20 minutes;definately not in the last 5 yrs.
If you are trapping coyotes in temps that are somewhat reasonable,or peeling them fresh on the truck,they aoint too bad.
BUT,if you are knocking down several a day,frozen solid by the time they get home........big difference.The winch does not care if they are froze.
I have been researching the climate in the area I'll now be trapping and am considering caging them til I can skin;unfortunately I have to wade thru legispeak and envirospeak to find out if I can keep live yotes.
Edge
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Post by trappnman on Sept 2, 2005 7:16:49 GMT -6
Gary- I taught Lori how to skin- just so she can do it in an emergency- but she has informed me- if I ain't dead, its not an emrgency.
I happy accept she does all the washing, fleshing and board work. She actually likes doing tat and takes pride in it. Cuts my time by MORE than half. Plus, a good relaxing time to go over the day, and plan the next.
I don't have a doubt in the world that someday, in my NEW fur shed, I'll have a puller.
I have to also say- that I am VERY careful not to pull too much- to let gravity do a lot of the work. Thats like doing beaver- skinning them hanging.....what a difference over on a table. Cuts a lot of time and effort and mess from the job. Having my back going out would not be fun and probably would NOT qualify as an emergency- all depends on how much I cry...
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Post by trappnman on Sept 2, 2005 7:20:23 GMT -6
only frozen coyotes I skin are when a farmer calls me and says he shot one behind the barn. All my coyotes are trapped on a 24 hour check so are "warm".
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Post by Zagman on Sept 2, 2005 7:30:38 GMT -6
Gots to tell ya......really don't recieve any help from gravity on coyotes. If I let the skin droop without pulling, gravity kicks in no help that I can see. Skin stays put.......no movement.
Beaver, yes........coyotes, no.
Without the puller, I am one of those crazy men that jump up and down on them, hang on them like trapeze, etc.
Squirrels dont let go of their skins easy.....rabbits do.
Coyotes are big squirrels.......and they fight me all the way.
Zagman
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Post by edge on Sept 2, 2005 7:33:12 GMT -6
That aint bad,T-Man,an emergency here would be massive bleeding from the ears..........
Warm coyotes are the way to go if you can,but after the third week in Oct...its a chance.I once installed a 12V heater in the back of the truck;took about a year for the burnt flesh/hair smell to fade.
And what wasnt burnt;was FROZE.
Ya gotta *try*........
Edge
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Post by td on Sept 2, 2005 7:47:59 GMT -6
Agree on pullers being much easier but not much, if any faster, depending on the energy level of the skinner. The older you get, the more you appreciate it,though. Skinned thousands by hand as a youngster (dad bought fur), then we got a machine from M&M. Worked great. Not quite as fast as by hand, but a lot less work.
The beauty of the electric motor,it doesn't care if the coyote or coon is half froze, or if the fat is set up hard, or if they are giant sized. If you can get the hind legs started and tail out, it will pull it.
Maybe most do this, but here's a tip. If you have a puller and you don't sell green, affter pulling tail out, don't make any cuts on back of critter, just pull. This almost always leaves most or all of the red meat and a lot of fat on the carcass and makes for much easier fleshing.
Also, I like to skin my coyotes a day after catching and coons a day or two (or 3 or 4)after, as long as there is a cold place for storage. This mostly eliminates bloody messes for me.
Looking at the homemade pullers, the way people hook up their critters looks cumbersome, what with vise grips, and clamps and ropes and golf balls or whatever. Maybe it isn't. The one we have, the fur above the base of the tail is pinned between a hinged metal plate and the pipe frame of the skinner. Holds nicely and takes no time to do. Loop the tail part way around the pipe, drop the plate on the hide above the base of the tail, pull. When done, just raise the plate. I usually put a little hand pressure on the plate and/or hold the tail so the hide doesn't slip.
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Post by Zagman on Sept 2, 2005 7:56:43 GMT -6
TD
Good tips....I have the same puller you do.
The hinge does not seem to work as well for me, especially on the coyotes. Plus, being table-height, and coyotes being so LONG, I could not pull the whole hide off without bottoming-out the gambrel on the boom.
Therefore, I now have an eye-bolt in the cement floor of my barn with a nylon rope, that I attach to the hide with a golf ball.
I also added a 16 inch extenion to the upright on my boom.......now, I can pull a whole coyote, regardless of size, all the way without reattaching the rope/golf ball higher on the pulled, loose hide.
I think when I talked to Randy at M & M about the hinge not working, he admitted that the machine I have was designed for raccoons.
Regardless, I love it. I rub against it, purring, like a cat on a coffee table.....
True love!
MZ
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Post by trappnman on Sept 2, 2005 8:40:47 GMT -6
no, gravity doesn't do much for coyotes as far as shear weight of the hide pulling- I meant that gravity keeps the hide pulled down and keeps the rolled edge turned up so iuts easy knife work. As I clean skin, the pelt continues to roll off without much if any pulling. After you get past the tail and upper flanks, of course.
Only place I ever used to really work and pull on yotes was the front legs- and by ringing them, and slitting up to the body, thats all but eliminated. Figuring out the slitting process was a MAJOR step in making yotes easier and quicker to skin.
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Post by Zagman on Sept 2, 2005 8:57:31 GMT -6
I know you dont buy it, but its even EASIER if you just lop the legs of all together.....
MZ
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Post by td on Sept 2, 2005 9:05:21 GMT -6
Zagman, ours would skin a deer to the ears if the ceiling was higher. The mast is adjustable, and we have it set to where it skins the biggest coyotes down to the ears. Used to be higher, but we moved to a new furshed w/a lower ceiling. The hinge works great for me. Do you hang on to the tail and/or put some hand pressure on the plate, since one hand is free due to the knee operated switch? The front legs are easy w/a puller. Cut the legs off w/axe or some use tree loppers of some sort. I pull down to front legs and stop. The machine will pull most coyotes past the legs,but there is some danger of ripping. Then insert steel, pull. Takes a few seconds. Hit the electric motor, and it pulls down to ears. If in a hurry, I can usually skin one in about 5 minutes. If the coyotes are cold, the blood from cutting off legs isn't usually a problem. If they are fresh it is.
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Post by foxtail on Sept 2, 2005 9:31:57 GMT -6
The best arguement for pullers is that you may be able to pull X amount of fur by hand per hour for the first 2 hours, but then you get tired and your average starts to drop fast.
The machine may be a little slower at first, but soon your average is consistant and just a little lower than the first 2 hours by hand onlt you get to keep it up for more hours, putting you fur ahead and less overall fatigue.
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Post by jwr64 on Sept 2, 2005 11:51:50 GMT -6
I'll be the first to admit I'm lazy and a puller helps make my life easier. I just moved and with a new fur shed (just a 16x20 6.5 side walls 9 ft. center) I wanted the most convienent rig i could have. I built a table on the back wall 39 in. tall 8 ft. long. built a bracket at 50 in. to hold the legs. I bolted my winch to the floor on the other side of the shed (20 ft.) and put a pulley at 50 inches. I have a heavy duty swivel on each end so I can turn the animal if i need to. I have 2 more pulleys on my cable so that I can run my cable to the ceiling and across to the beam at 9 ft. to use it horizontal or I can unhook al my pulleys and use it at a 45 degree angle. I took eye bolts and offset the eye to slip the pulley on and off. I wish I had a camera. I think this is going to be the best all around set up for me. beav do you think it will work??
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Post by thebeav2 on Sept 2, 2005 15:59:51 GMT -6
Sounds like It might just do the trick. But you could have built a bench 12 or so feet long mounted the winch On one end of the bench and then mounted a piece of angle iron with a slot cut in It on the other end of the bench. Place the critter on the bench hook up the hind legs to the winch.Hook up the tail and skirt of the hide with a cable slip noose and hook It In the slot In the angle iron. In a few weeks I'll get all this stuff set up and update my web site.
I have been thinking that I might just try and skin some beaver on my skinners but I can average about 10 min per beaver so I think I would lose ground by using the skinner. And It would be more work lifting them up and hanging them and then lifting them back down again.
Gary
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myst
Demoman...
Posts: 113
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Post by myst on Sept 5, 2005 18:04:33 GMT -6
Mike My skinner is setup like yours except I use a 4X4 piece of plywood instead of 200lbs of lead. I drilled a hole in the center of the plywood and attach my vicegrips to the plywood and stand on the plywood(I use my weight as 200 lbs of lead) it is a little tricky at first with balancing act, but you get use it. My best time for skinning a coyote is still about 25 minutes. This just another idea. Good Trapping
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Post by mostinterestingmanintheworld on Sept 5, 2005 18:16:32 GMT -6
My only problem is that I don't come home every night.
Do you guys take the saddle off your coyotes when you are talking about clean skinning?
I flesh my cats right down and really take nice care of them.
From what I see they just count noses on coyotes any more so I just get the guts out of them and call it good.
Joel
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Post by trappnman on Sept 6, 2005 8:14:48 GMT -6
Joel- never really thought about the saddles on coyotes. On mink and rats...yes
I'm trying to picture the hanging cooytes...and it seems to me, the saddle stays on the carcasses- but without any special doing on my part.....
From what I see they just count noses on coyotes any more so I just get the guts out of them and call it good. [/img]
LOL- crude, but true.
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Post by trappnman on Sept 6, 2005 8:19:22 GMT -6
Foxtail- you bring up a good point- that of comulative time requirements.
Thats the main reason I don't speed skin and try to wrench each hide off.
Slow but steady not only wins the race, it's not as tiring.
My whole trapping philosophy is moderation. I can fur trap for 6+ months- so to me its more like a regular job, not a mad dash to get everything done in a short time period.
This year- I'll be stepping up the pace a little- and without a doubt, having a partner in the fur shed decreases labor, time and energy requirements.
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Post by 17HMR on Sept 6, 2005 8:34:33 GMT -6
Those of you that use ele winches what weight of pull are they rated for? I see them from #440 to #2000 +.
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Post by rk660 on Sept 6, 2005 17:23:46 GMT -6
Built power skinner about 17 years ago and like others above said I doubt I could bear the thought of skinning without it. I can ave 20 coon and hour w/o breaking a sweat and pull the biggest coyote around in 7 minutes or less. I pull fox by hand but thats about all. Ive seen 2 pro fur handlers do 71 coon in 1 hr, one opening and one running skinner. I know plenty of young skinners that can jerk 25 an hour, they got strong backs and a hell of a grip and hustle like mad to do it. I can do the same amount of work with 20% energy expended. After a 12-14 hr day up and down creek banks, who wants to put any more work into skinning than you have to.
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