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Post by trappnman on Apr 20, 2007 7:25:45 GMT -6
ah, good point.
Are their wanderings random....
As a guess, I'd think that during the good months (May- Sept, Oct) where food and love aren't a concern, that males do wander in more of a random pattern. This is based entirely on the odd spots I see summer mink show up.
During tough times, or breeding season, I'd tend to think that these wanderings have a pattern to them.
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Post by BK on Apr 22, 2007 15:19:18 GMT -6
The point I hoped to make with this thread was that " I " feel buck mink's travels change drastically during breeding season, and those of us trying to pattern them might be easily confused. Granted they are putting on more miles at this time of year,.........but look at the silly places you see them or see them dead on the road. Truly some goofy places,.......tracks made in September would show you a lot more in regard to their patterns. I personally feel mink will tire of catching fish or frogs after their guts are full and perhaps they have squirreled enough away. But in the same breath I don't feel they never tire of killing any thing small and warm blooded that might move in front of them. So when you see where one killed a bunny in the dry run next to the local Micky d's in April,................well it might not be the best place to set up first in October. P.S.,.......... Steve I did a $23 average with Groney on my green Spring beaver.
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Post by thebeav2 on Apr 22, 2007 15:30:44 GMT -6
PS that probably would have been $35.00 at NAFA LOL
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Post by BK on Apr 22, 2007 15:45:38 GMT -6
Perhaps Beav.,..........It's a skin game. But you know I'm working 9's and 6 0n Sat. just couldn't find time to put them up unless I wanted to kill less of them. And I do like to make them dead, ............besides I have the money in my hand. Let's argue about mink I'm in the mood , and people can see just how wrong you are.
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Post by trappnman on Apr 22, 2007 16:02:56 GMT -6
and my point- uis that I DON't think a males travelling changes during breeding season.
Start in October? Not I. I start after thanksgiving, and I see the SAME patterns then as late February. and I too agreee that these patterns most likely exist i nthe summer months- but except for a dead mink here and there, I'd have no way of knowing.
Still not sure what exactly you want to argue about..
You should have made the flood run...
Jim has a point about motivation-
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Post by BK on Apr 22, 2007 18:14:54 GMT -6
I think I'm getting rolled out Steve, I put the bike up for sale, might regret it in July.
About the mink those Males you see dead on the road in the Spring with the huge nuts and the faded singed fur are not traveling the same places they do in the fall when it actually means something to a trapper.
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Post by trappnman on Apr 23, 2007 5:19:02 GMT -6
too bad about your bike-
I do believe, that these males in late spring (when food becomes available away from the water) are roughly in the same haunts then as fall.
breeding males or not- its still tied to food.
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Post by thebeav2 on Apr 23, 2007 6:51:12 GMT -6
We as trappers may think mink are traveling In erratic or random routes at different times of the year but are they? i believe that a mink knows his or her home ground like It knows the back of It's paw and when It starts out on one of those walk abouts It knows exactly where It's going and what It's doing along the way. I also think mink work all the areas we are talking about It's just In the winter with snow cover Is when we can see the tracks. We could probably catch mink In these areas year round but It's a lot easier to set the water so we can drown our catch. I still believe a mink Is more of a dry land critter then It Is a water animal. And I don't think mink travel as much during the warmer weather like Oct and Nov but once things get a little rough and the temps cool down then they move. I don't think It's all a food driven move but with cooler weather they are In a different comfort zone body temperature wise. I bet It's just like you or I when things are hot and humid we tend to lay up and not be so active but when cool weather comes along we get more active It's just a comfort thing.
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Post by trappnman on Apr 23, 2007 7:11:00 GMT -6
We are picking hairs here... but...
I don't think they DO move as much in Oct (or July, August for that matter)- because of the easy supply of food. I think that the minks movements over most of the year, are in the same places and the same patterns- just longer stays in areas.
When snow comes- it produces movment. I've often heard its the cold, and I do think ice is a factor in some areas, but here, cold is irrelevant I think.
Its the snow thats the key.
The snow makes it much harder to earn a living for the mink, so it heads back to areas where its easier- creeks and bank sides (extend this belt back as far as needed on your particular streams.)
Lets diverse a little- do FEMALES and YOY travel? I don't beleive much- for 2 reasons that aren't proof, but are observable actions anyways. 1) the mink I see trout fishing and along creeks doing activities- are almost laways small mink 2) the dead mink one finds or catches far away from water- are almost always males.
My cousin, who is a very good mink trapper, feels very strongly that in 1 week, he will take all the mink from a stream. And early, before deep snow, I believe this is at least somewhat true- you will take all the locals in that time frame. After the firsat week, 10 days of trapping on a creek, I seldom get many small mink (females, YOY).
Back to the main point- here, the time that naturally male mink move back to the creeks becasue of food issues, causing more movement, is also the start of breeding season.
So here, with my open water and (usually) deep snow, I think its a wash.
However- in other areas- warmer climes, fully iced over waterways- its more than likely differnt i nthre patterns. Fopr example, I know a good mink trap[per, from warmer climes, that takes 100+ mink a year- and his BEST weeks are the last couple of season BECAUSE of breeding. There, there IS an abrupt pattern change.
And thats caused, I think, because the mink ARE spread out before the onset of breeding urges-
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Post by BK on Apr 23, 2007 18:04:41 GMT -6
Steve the big males that you and I catch late are coming off the bigger watersheds to capitalize on the open water of our streams. I kill them underwater, you kill them on top ,if you can keep your traps working. But here's the thing ,..............they weren't there earlier. Now later there will be males running around with sex on their mind, and they will make tracks that no trapper can make sense of . And yes if they come upon a bunny or easy bird of some nature they will kill it and any others that hold still for it. You can write this off hunting if you wish,.............. but I'll tell you in most cases it's one head thinking for the other that brought them there to begin with. These tracks won't teach you much.
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Post by trappnman on Apr 23, 2007 18:41:08 GMT -6
I agree- they WEREN"T there earlier-
HERE- once we got good snow- whether Nov or Dec or Jan- THATS when the males move.
and we agree- the tracks DON'T teach you much
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Post by markymark on Apr 24, 2007 0:58:10 GMT -6
Steve the big males that you and I catch late are coming off the bigger watersheds to capitalize on the open water of our streams.
I find it to be the other way around in my area going to the bigger water late in the season. Here's a twist, if I am standing in the water facing the current I catch almost 80% of my mink on the left hand side.
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Post by trappnman on Apr 24, 2007 6:25:35 GMT -6
Interesting- here, our bigger water is ice late in the year
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Post by SteveCraig on Apr 24, 2007 7:44:01 GMT -6
"I find it to be the other way around in my area going to the bigger water late in the season. Here's a twist, if I am standing in the water facing the current I catch almost 80% of my mink on the left hand side."
Makes perfect sense to me, especially on east/west streams as the left side on them would be a south exposure, giving more cover, and staying open longer into the season, with more sun light.
Thinking back to my Indiana lines, I believe this to be the case also. Maybe not 80%, but still very high on the left side.
I believe Eric told me he also runs a 70% or so on the left side.
I also see the same as Marky. Smaller streams freeze first and I can always count on the Wabash River for late winter trapping, as it is always open later into the season.
I remember reading in Bill Nelsons mink book that he said basically the same thing. Start at the headwaters of the smaller streams, early in the year, and work your way down to the bigger water late in the season. This is what Johnny Thorpe taught me too. Interesting thread to say the least.
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Post by trappnman on Apr 24, 2007 7:49:04 GMT -6
exact opposite here steve- all the streams are multiple spring fed, and the fast, smaller streams freeze very slowly and many stay open all winter. Whereas any stream big enough to float a boat- is froze solid early in the year.
and our hill streams, twist and turn so much, that there is no hard and fast rule about left or right- some streams are solid over both sides- and thus both sides are equal, and some just have vegitation on one side- and of course, that side is best. Most streams I trap, I criss cross depending on vegitiaiton.
Given a choice of equal, I do set more on southern sides, simply because the sets stay open longer in cold weather, plus thaw out quicker as well.
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Post by BK on Apr 24, 2007 15:59:40 GMT -6
I've always felt the largest part of the mink I catch come from the left side of the stream, but until right now I've never read it before, and thought if talked about it some would think I'm crazier than I am. Let me offer this,...... in Wisc. when you cross what we call the"Tension Line" (where streams run North into the big lake), It dosen't seem to hold as true. Let me know if you figure this one out.
Where is JL?
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Post by jsevering on Apr 25, 2007 4:46:27 GMT -6
was there a reason given for trapping the headwaters first and moving down during season.... was wondering if it was an access deal with seasonal roads,eliminating loops etc. or if they felt there was a bigger influx on the larger streams during certain periods, like once the snow first hit good or a noticeable pattern for other reasons.... jim
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Post by SteveCraig on Apr 25, 2007 7:16:23 GMT -6
Thorpe taught me that most litters were raised at the headwaters, and began to migrate downstream on an average year. By working the smaller tributaries first you tend to pick up more YOY and females.This seems to hold true for me. By the end of the season, I would be on bigger water and the mink were there.
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Post by trappnman on Apr 25, 2007 7:32:29 GMT -6
part of the answer must be whats considered small water, and whats considered big.
For me, small water is trickles, damp spots even.
Our bigger waters are small spring fed streams. Many can be waded in hip boots and could be trapped in knee boots if not worried about drowning coon.
Our BIG water is the Mississippi.
So the females and YOY, are already on the streams- the snow is what pushes the males to these streams. (IMHO, of course)
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Post by JLDakota on Apr 25, 2007 11:53:48 GMT -6
Nothing much different then has been stated. My take on the big boars in my part of the country is they stay in the marshes hunting until marshes freeze up and then come to the creeks and flowing water. If the marshes don't freeze but instead have snow cover, they continue to hunt the marshes. Froze up and snow cover for sure puts them on the creek/stream open/flowing water and also conincides with the pressure they start feeling in their groin. The only change that I have seen to the above is if there is a known (by them) area that is full of food, as in a control structure in the creek or river that stops the fish from going up river and results in a pool full of fish, they will be there will "bells on" early fall and stay all winter.
I personally like the late season when everything is freezing up and others have pulled their traps. I have the open creeks to myself and a large percentage of mink I catch are large boars.
Having read and heard the sages talk about the left side stuff, I have found in my case that the whole thing depends on which way the water is flowing and how that relates to the southern exposure. Obviously, if water is flowing from east to west, and if all factors about both sides are equal, I'm normally going to be setting on the left side facing into the current to take advantage of the southerly sun which will keep my water trap working longer. If the water is flowing from west to east and everything else is equal, I'll be setting on the right side to get the sun. I would expect that the high percentage of left side catches referenced by method writers were most probably on water flowing from east to west. JL
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