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mink
Mar 26, 2007 15:05:35 GMT -6
Post by mountainman on Mar 26, 2007 15:05:35 GMT -6
Lumberjack, if those triggers work for you thats ok. I have been a little POd at woodstream for putting the other good trap companies out of business and then going cheaper on traps with things like shorter chains then stop making longsprings. I have seen where a number of the crimp on triggers flew off the 280s, 330s and some of the 110s i have used. The dog doesnt engage all the way onto the jaw of the trap like I want it too and I see no way to fix that short of using a dremel tool or changing the triggers. I have drilled and pop riveted the crimp on 4 way trigger to stop it from breaking into two pieces and kept the trap working until the wires wore out and broke. The 4ways are more sensitive and I believe that is a good concept except imo they went too cheap with it only measuring the pressure it takes to spring a trap and not setting one on the line after it has been painted and then scraped with a knife blade to have it spring while making a set. I set them dead center in the trail to make sure the mink hits the trigger first and not bump the trap as I believe I have had some sprung and empty ones besause of that. Maybe im in a minority on that thing but that is what I believe. The newer Victors seem to have a few thousandths more thickness to the triggers.
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mink
Mar 26, 2007 15:24:01 GMT -6
Post by mountainman on Mar 26, 2007 15:24:01 GMT -6
I tried the 120s for mink a good long while back and was impressed with how quick they killed the catch. I was always concerned with how stiff the trigger was on them. Has anyone tried the Dobbins adjustment on 120s for mink? I wish I had known to do that long ago and had filed the triggers when I had those traps. I believe that would really help the 160s fire easier too, but I havent tried it yet. Im going to make up some 3 sided wooden tunnel supports that will be notched to hold a 110/120.
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mink
Mar 26, 2007 17:57:52 GMT -6
Post by BK on Mar 26, 2007 17:57:52 GMT -6
Well I can't keep quiet as I probably should on this one.
JL who I respect as a mink trapper likes those circle triggers, IF I understand him correctly he feels it's kinda a draw to mink. I refuse to argue with the man I feel he knows his stuff. Myself I run the wires as close together as I can get them and 2/3 of the way off to one side. Perhaps the biggest reason for this is when I fill my pockets with 110 size traps and take off down the creek I'm seldom sure if the trap will be set dry or be used for a BE set. In my opinion the Circe trigger set up collects too much crap when used at a BE set.
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mink
Mar 26, 2007 22:57:47 GMT -6
Post by JLDakota on Mar 26, 2007 22:57:47 GMT -6
Mountainman, My purpose in this post is to assure you that although the circle trigger in not the popular configuration you hear alot of body grip minkers talking about, it's use is in fact very productive for me. The following are my personal opinions and observations as they relate to your circle question.
Obviously V triggers have caught a ton of mink for many mink trappers all over the country including myself. The guys that use the both wires together and over to one side a little and those that bend one wire horizontal and leave the other vertical have proven to themselves that it makes a difference or they wouldn't continue to do it.
My experimentation over the years with BMI Mag 110's on mink trails on land has resulted in my believing that for me a round circle of 2.5" in diameter is more productive then any other wire configuration. I start all my triggers on body grippers and new BMI mags with the diameter circle referenced often results in DRN with nary a flop circle, sometimes not even a flop.
The proper (for me) bell trigger configuration on the BMI 110 Mag's is achieved quickly by separating the two L wires til the tips of the L are 1/4" apart. I feel this bell trigger config is better then the normal V for the same reasons that adding wire, mono or anything similar to the ends of the V wires. It seems to square them up for a chest hit which results in a head catch. I feel the wire configuration referenced by BK and which is used by several friends of mine for all their body grippers (mink, coon and beaver) gives the animals an opening which I think doesn't "mentally" crowd them and gives them the mistaken idea that they can make it through. BK's mink success is proof enough that that config works.
When the BMI mags came out with the bell triggers whose longer wires gave me a completely closed circle, I quit using any other brand 110. For those looking to buy the BMI mag 110's be aware that the last word I got was that they had discontinued manufacturing them and that no dealers could get them. Mind you that was last year so maybe there is stock out there this year. At the Wis Convention a guy from BMI was selling just the triggers off a flat bed trailer so I bought a "bunch" and will sit on them and replace triggers as required on other body grippers brands when I run out of my BMI mag stash.
I found that after about 2 seasons on land the power of the spring on the BMI mag 110 had reduced to the point that it no longer had the killing power to take out a large male without a larger then desired flop circle so as a result I rotate them to water applications only and use new on land.
I have used Barker support wires for at least 15 maybe 20 years but a couple years ago I started using the Arrowheads and like them alot. Very quick and handy for me.
At last my reason for choosing the 2.5" circle for the mink is simply this. Over the years I have seen several instances where mink "went out of their way" under duress (dying) to put their heads through trap rings. Once can be an accident but two or more times told me that maybe the trapped mink saw a circle as a hole, potential safety, put their head in and died.
Over time I have come to subscribe to the theory that the "circle" squares him up on cubby or trail sets, that the circle is a "hole" to him and an invite vs a deterrent. Over many years, with minimal blocking or blending, big mink have seemed willing to "wear the circle". Although your mileage may vary, don't be afraid to use the circle for mink on land. It no longer surprises me and its all I use for body gripping mink.
The gentleman responsible for the Pocket Popper from Zumbro, MN area, uses circle triggers and I believe I heard has taken over a 1000 mink doing so.
BTW, I leave the circle configuration for under water as I've never seen it to collect that much more crap in "my" BE's and also because I'm too lazy to straighten them out. I do agree with the theory that under water the mink's swimming style prohibits him from avoiding any trigger config. Be well, JL
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mink
Mar 26, 2007 23:11:23 GMT -6
Post by mountainman on Mar 26, 2007 23:11:23 GMT -6
BK, I hear you on not wanting to go against a buddy or the way the other guys like to do it. I know there are a lot of good respected trappers on here and I feel the same way about it and wouldnt want to rub anybody the wrong way on anything. I did want to hear what you guys think about this and do appreciate any advice I get. I guess I should have been more specific when I got that thing started by saying I was only figuring on using those triggers setups on dryland sets. My bad guys. This computer isnt right because of a server problem or something so I keep losing connection and my work. That is a good point about picking up trash on the circle trigger. I use the same trigger and placement as you do on underwater rat sets with mink in mind and figure to do the same for BE sets. It is more convenient to have them all the same for both types of sets and I need to use em both ways in some places. Have you ever tried a turkey vest for mink trapping? I really like mine. Thanks for the good replies guys. Ill turn it over to yall to take this wherever you want to go with it. My thanks to you too Trappnman. You have a most excellent site here Steve.
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mink
Mar 27, 2007 5:54:00 GMT -6
Post by trappnman on Mar 27, 2007 5:54:00 GMT -6
jim takes most of his mink in pockets- thus the desire for the pocket popper. and one reason he uses so many 110s in pockets, is because he told me he traps a lot of shallow type non drowning streams.
like I said, I never saw any difference in catching mink no matter what the trigger. But- Im going by mink in the trap, not how quick he dies, or body position of that mink. All my 110s even if above water, allow the mink to be in the water immedately, so I get drowned mink a lot I'm sure in my 110s.
but I do get an occasional 110 snapped and nothing- perhaps circle triggers would have make that mink fire the trap sooner.
If I leave a mink (or rat for that matter) out of water, theres a good chance that hes going to be et by something- I lose a few mink every year as it is to yotes, plus owls and those damn shrew.
had one this year, empty trap on the bank, mink smell everywhere. Walking back to truck along creek, there was the mink laying there. Looked fine, but was full of bites when skun.
this is a 3 day check, probably get away with it more on a 24.
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mink
Mar 27, 2007 19:30:08 GMT -6
Post by BK on Mar 27, 2007 19:30:08 GMT -6
When I jump in it's with both feet, .................. I may just unload a bunch of 110's and buy that many BMI mags and see if I can identify with JL. The FTA convention would seem like good place to look for some. Anyone need some used 110s?
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mink
Mar 29, 2007 6:49:39 GMT -6
Post by mountainman on Mar 29, 2007 6:49:39 GMT -6
Thanks JL, you must have posted while I was still working on mine and being rather tired I just cut it off and crashed. I also believe it is good to give the mink an inviting opening, set for good quick killing strikes and use a strong trap for a quick dispatch. As Trappnman said it doesnt make that much difference for a quick drown set but I will set them all up the same for both dry land and water and get the mink underwater wherever possible to help avoid damage or loss of the catches. I have been using an extention wire to let the mink get down in the water on most of the bank trail sets. I may start using parachute cord instead of wire. Big rolls can be found at army surplus stores. I need to find some mag 110s and rig em up for next season. Somebody should keep making that type of trap or start doing it again soon. There is enough interest and a decent market for the fur. Maybe more mink will hit the auctions and drive the market some more for us. Great posts guys! Thank for the info. It will sure seem strange to set without the right of ways and on some lines all BE for mink with submerged conibears for beaver and otter, but I do need the 3 day check and to avoid the zillion coons that I still dont have a season for in one district of NC. We did make 3 gains on the regs this year. One of the reasons I need to increase efficiency on the lines is to be more able to make contributions to the association. The work you guys put in here will help benefit trapping as well as helping a fellow trapper out. Outstanding guys. I really appreciate it. I have probably done at least 80% of my mink trapping with footholds until there got to be so many coons that it is tough to keep any real number of even the blind sets working with the foothold trap. I have been trying overhead fencing as well as the usual guides. Some coons have went over or around without being caught, but they do tend to put there paws into about everything while foraging along the banks.
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mink
Mar 29, 2007 7:22:30 GMT -6
Post by mountainman on Mar 29, 2007 7:22:30 GMT -6
Trappnman, I have lost some dry set mink catches to predators too. I really burns me up to have a good mink get eaten up by something. I set a natural notch in the bank at a superhot bridge location once that I knew was risky as it was just over the road bank not far from some houses. A big mink hit the 110 during the night and apparently when it squealed in the trap or sprayed musk a beagle ran down and yanked it out of the trap. I found the mink at the edge of the river next to the trap with only one tooth mark in it. I had a partner that was a little hard to tell anything and just did it his way most of the time. We set up a place for mink where I knew there were a lot of owls. He rushed in and set the best blind set I knew was there with a foothold and just tied off to a handy root at the edge of the water. I told him I would drown that mink if I was him and he just blew me off so the next day he just had the leg of a big mink in his trap and bellowed that somebody had stole his mink. I asked him why they didnt take the leg and the trap too. Yall see what Ive had to work with here. I have only lost one mink to a turtle. Coons have eat some of the shallow water catches. I have had redtail hawks eat so many muskrats that they couldnt fly away and just hopped up onto tree limbs. Ill get the catches underwater as much as I can, especially for the longer checks. We have a lot of yotes here too now. I wish you would come thin em out sometime. I thin em out some on one line because we deer hunt there and it helps the turkeys as well to keep the cats and coyotes in check. I average 7 cats a season on that one ridge. I have never seen so many predators concentrated in one area on a mountain here. There were even two cougars there a couple seasons back. There was a yote not 30 feet from the kitchen door a couple of weeks back sniffing around for scraps. Ill have to get with you on a supply order when I can. I noticed in here somewhere that you handle the belisle traps too. Those lures sound interesting. I have been thinking theres a lot of good trapping supplies in the north country that are not all that much available and worth the time to look for them.
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mink
Mar 31, 2007 23:32:23 GMT -6
Post by mountainman on Mar 31, 2007 23:32:23 GMT -6
Whats the maximum current speed that mink will hunt or travel underwater and hit the BE set?
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mink
Apr 1, 2007 9:46:02 GMT -6
Post by Jeffrey on Apr 1, 2007 9:46:02 GMT -6
mm I've never really considered current speed when I set BE sets. If I can see the place to make the set, then I think they can swim it. I think I'm going to try the circle triggers this year too, and I want to try the pocket popper also.
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mink
Apr 1, 2007 18:20:50 GMT -6
Post by mountainman on Apr 1, 2007 18:20:50 GMT -6
Ok, thanks Jeffrey. I know mink habits pretty well, but I have work to do to get up to speed on the underwater conibear sets. Im gonna give it a go on the circle triggers too. Im interested in trying the pocket poppers. I think they may be stackable and would sure be easy to carry in a bucket or pack. They should be great in the high bank holes that the big ol bank runners will use and many other places.
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mink
Apr 2, 2007 6:50:16 GMT -6
Post by Steve Gappa on Apr 2, 2007 6:50:16 GMT -6
those that keep records claim that 80% or more of the mink they take are traveling into the current.
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mink
Apr 2, 2007 9:54:07 GMT -6
Post by Jeffrey on Apr 2, 2007 9:54:07 GMT -6
Steve I find that interesting, my partner claims they do this because when they go around an obstacle the fish are pointed up stream and it's easier to catch them. Any thoughts any body?
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mink
Apr 2, 2007 11:15:15 GMT -6
Post by trappnman on Apr 2, 2007 11:15:15 GMT -6
my other thought is this- it means that underwater is a hunting only mode- not a transportation mode per se.
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mink
Apr 2, 2007 17:07:26 GMT -6
Post by BK on Apr 2, 2007 17:07:26 GMT -6
1 out of 17 are heading down stream for me,......this has held true for me for a number of years.
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mink
Apr 2, 2007 19:07:08 GMT -6
Post by trappnman on Apr 2, 2007 19:07:08 GMT -6
old mink once said-
Is the mink traveling upstream or down? If he's traveling up stream and hunting aquatic life he will again travel underwater. Aquatic species lay facing the current that brings their food to them. A mink approching from the rear can much easier snag a fish or shiner.
If he's traveling downstream he will most likely take the land route, go down and circle around the hunting hole, take to the water and approch facing the current.
and you replied-
Steve, I don't understand how OldCoon's agreement with me about catching mink going upstream answered the why of it for you? if you no longer agree with glen I still do.
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mink
Apr 3, 2007 3:27:22 GMT -6
Post by mountainman on Apr 3, 2007 3:27:22 GMT -6
Seems only logical to me that a mink will prefer to hunt upstream into the current. I do the same thing myself to sneak up on a trout or smallmouth. The mink not being the same swimmer that an otter is needs to face into the current where it is stronger to maneuver. They can put on short bursts of speed to evade danger and will push off of rocks and other underwater objects when they do that to change direction as they cut through the current. Mink have a high metabolism so they cannot afford to waste energy on too many unsuccesfull hunts. I dont know what I was thinking on the traveling thing Steve. Must have been a brain fart or too much late night on the "puter. Mink seem to prefer resting areas in the lower half of smaller fishing holes as I dont recall any being on the upper end. On some fallen trees the mink will have a short tunnel dug for easy access to the tree trunk from the bank end. I believe the mink watches from the waters edge and will slide quietly off of the log or tree trunk and let the current take him back a little before diving to come up behind most prey items. Crayfish seem to go downstream the most when startled so if the mink misses and doesnt cut the prey off he will have to turn and could possibly lose it in a stronger current downstream. Trout when spooked will most times go for the rocks or the head of the hole down deep or under a waterfall only going downstream as a last resort.
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mink
Apr 3, 2007 8:06:47 GMT -6
Post by trappnman on Apr 3, 2007 8:06:47 GMT -6
Mink seem to prefer resting areas in the lower half of smaller fishing holes as I dont recall any being on the upper end.
it does seem that more resting areas are at the bottom or on the calm side. Had one this year where I had a coon set immediately at the top of a drop off. Water was fast but only an inch or 2 deep, then dropped righto ff into a very deep hole. That was the spot had a trout with tooth marks in it at the trap bed, and the mink at the bottom of the slide. I had to cut oout a flat surface for the trap bed.. ohhh brain fart....
I always thought mink worked the center of roakcy shallow streams for crayfish, frogs, etc with the occasional fish...
but thinking now, and thinking about trout fishing...how often do you see trout in that 1-2 inch water moving from hole to hole? Lots.
hmmph. for whatever rason- I alwys thought of mink fishing by swimming deep holes, not running thme down in shallow water....
now if a guy would look for small connecting shallow between runs or holes....
sometimes the obvious escapes us- it sure did me...
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mink
Apr 3, 2007 12:56:43 GMT -6
Post by mountainman on Apr 3, 2007 12:56:43 GMT -6
Ok Trappnman, Whats a good set for the shallow riffles. An open top rock tunnel? Hidden bait set w/fish in the rocks? If a mink was sitting in a resting area above the shallows it would have to hunt downstream to go get the fish when it heard it splash in the shallow water. They are opportunistic whenever possible. I did have that one grab my trout with the hook still in its mouth when I laid the rod down to fetch my knife from downstream. 0oohh just cut a good one!Heh Heh.
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