'Coons and Pocket Sets

[trapn1]

Here's an observation from my line this year. This is the first year I've kept a journal and since the beginning of season, 15 Nov., this is what I have noticed. I trap mostly creeks using pocket sets and what I call big-hole sets for coon. So far this year I have not caught a second coon at a pocket set that produced once. I will catch one down the bank 10' or if I move that set a ways I'll pickup another one. Is this something you other coon trappers have noticed or something that I'm just seeing on my line? Is there a reason for this or do I just have a small population of coon on these creeks? Thanks Trapn1

[Steve Gappa]

I think it might just be you- I have coon pockets where I take 12-15 con apiece in during a season. And usually, if I have 2-3 pockets- it will be one that wil lbe the "hot"' one.

Why you are having this occur, don't know.

[mustelameister]

Is the trapped 'coon drowned and out of sight? Or has it been held at the site for other 'coon to take note on? If there aren't many 'coon in the area, I'm thinking the locals are a bit gunshy on checking out that pocket.

One thing I've noticed about bait vs lure for 'coon: If I go straight lure, my second 'coon catch drops. If I go bait, I don't notice much difference.

My guess is that after the first 'coon goes down the drowner system, other 'coon happen by, check out the pocket/pipe, figure out the lure hasn't got anything else to offer, and move on. Next trip along the bank they smell the same thing, and aren't curious enough to check it out.

On the other hand, first 'coon is shaking hands with Davy Jones and what's left of the bait is still available to other 'coon. They check it out, clean it up, and remember that, and later come back to see if there are seconds.

Changing up the lure often will help, but this is why I prefer bait to lure.

[shagnasty]

have a few pockets out at a couple "favor" beaver job sites. untouched and on sign. cant say the same about my blind traps and blind 220s in pinch points and/or trails at same sites. the few i have out are banging.

[foxtail]

I have spots where I can't drown anything bigger than a mink, yet I get coon there all of the time after a coon has been caught and has made a mess. I also have spots where I will have a wise guy flip the trap or get toe caught and get out every day. Eventually I get the wise guy.

Coon are stupid.
They learn, but forget the lessons when the tummy growls.

I caught a coon in 90-something where the drowning rig failed.
The coon got away with my trap and a week later I caught him again with the trap still safely on it's foot. Healthy and unhurt.

That coon didn't get a second chance and old Russ ended up with him.

[trapn1]

Well that wierd streak broke today. I caught my second coon in the same pocket interestingly my son has a pocket about 15' away from mine and caught two possums in a row. I think it just must be the population density where I am trapping. Thanks for the replies. Trapn1

[bblwi]

Mike,
Interesting and informative discussion on the bait versus lure and the "change up". I know I have had coon travel past the sets after a catch and it is now clearer that I should be changing up and or rebating more frequently. I did a bit of baiting this year on the last 3 days of my water line and it did ratchet up catches and your discussion reaffirms those findings. Looks like a new system for the fall. Ah yes the commensurate projector always living in the future and not in the moment.

Thanks for the tips. Blessed & Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to you and your family.

Max my yellow lab pup will be 6 months on the 22nd of December.
He is learning and so am I. He followed me through the woods for about 1-2 hours a day for the week we had the snow while I was show-shoeing. He is not flinching a bit with the .22 longs coming out of the pistol, the 20 gauge is next.


Bryce

[trappnman]

One thing I've noticed about bait vs lure for 'coon: If I go straight lure, my second 'coon catch drops. If I go bait, I don't notice much difference.

My guess is that after the first 'coon goes down the drowner system, other 'coon happen by, check out the pocket/pipe, figure out the lure hasn't got anything else to offer, and move on. Next trip along the bank they smell the same thing, and aren't curious enough to check it out.

Have to disagree. I run the same pocket sets on drowners for almost 3 months, lure/fishoil in all of them. I do believe a change up is of value, but during those 3 months, I maybe change up 2x. My favorite change up? Add a little Cachottier to the fish oil.

[mustelameister]

Another thought: if using bait, I remove the bait completely and refreshen it at least every other check, especially in warmer weather. My bait, gone bad, doesn't smell good once it goes south. I grind up mostly carp and mix in some jack mackeral, then add flavors for changeups: anise in some, shellfish in some, etc. But it all goes bad since I don't add any preservatives. Rotten bait, in my opinion, draw primarily 'possum.

[mustelameister]

Steve: Running the same pocket sets for 3 months has to have low percentages over the long run, doesn't it? I've never carried a river line past 5 weeks, but did notice that after "a while" . . . the best sets continued to hit sporadically while some sets go stone dead.

I call my river set locations "majors" and "minors". The majors are the set locations that crank 'coon out with almost every check for a good week or more. After that it's every other check, or maybe once a week. The minors look like good locations, but for some reason maybe it one 'coon a week, then just go cold. With each season I try to find and set up more majors, and let the minors go by the wayside.

So a couple of questions:

On your waterlines where you run pockets for 3 months straight, if you could divide your sets into majors and minors, what percent of your sets would you consider to be majors?

And of those majors, what is your catch percentage on a typical check day, after the first month?

Example? You've got 50 pockets set up on a particular line. You consider 30 of them to be hotspots, ie majors, and 20 of them bang a 'coon occasionally. Of those 30 hotspots, on a typical check after the first month, how many 'coon would you expect to take?

I know the weather plays a significant role here, but let's assume this particular check day has followed a weather pattern with 30s by day and upper 20s by night.

Thinking of my lines and past catches, if I had 30 good locations set up after the first month I'm guessing if I had 4-6 'coon on a three-day check of 30 good sets I'd feel good about it this time of year.

Anyone else care to share?

[shagnasty]

i dont set a trap at minor spots. sometimes a set doesnt pay off because i dinked the animal(s) somewhere else. but a couple days of nothing and that set and me leave. why run empty traps for a week waiting to catch "a" coon. makes no sense to me. go somewhere else. too many majors out there to dink with minors, serious!

[bobwendt]

run a pocket set for 3 months? is this the same guy discussing seed on other threads, and making money trapping on still other threads? man, what can I say. I will say you can`t hurt coons here in indiana no matter what you do. but you can`t make money on them here either, well not real money.

[bblwi]

I am still in the experimental stage on water lines. For the most part or in fact my reality is I have never had a water line coon set out for more than two weeks max in 25 plus years of trapping.
Now that I am retired and will be able to trap more days and longer days I am planning to develop a longer season, drowner type line that I may run for 3-5 weeks.
Getting back to the major and the minors Mike.
Do you find your majors to be just that major every year and your minors more of seasonal and or specific to that year based on some activities near by, such as corn versus alfalfa, soybeans etc.?
I need to really do some better prospecting to find those spots and the ones that will stay functional during the cold snaps and even some water fluctuations. I am trying a different tactic on 16 sets for 5 days as we speak and with limited success to date. Shallow fast moving water and drags, which is not what I will be looking for on the drowner line.

Bob when you trapped coons hard in the water years back, did you setup heavy and pull and move quickly or did you keep good spots going and sort of leap frog around as the season progressed.
I find that I start to develop much less efficient routes if I want to keep some good spots working longer as I move through my available water line.

Bryce

[bobwendt]

bryce, I never did water trap coons heavy. the boots, bait or lure, live animals, extra work and labor etc just could not hold up againsrt the ease of 100% dryland 220`s in trails beat to bare dirt 5 feet from the pavement. when they were worth the money ( lol, to me) I ran long lines, like couple hundred miles and could run as hi as 50% catch nights by better set selections and not just any parting of the weeds. 100 coon nights and 40 coon/ run averages could be done for 4-5 days before leapfroagging to new ground. if the weather was suitable, 5 runs and they were piddled out and time to roll. all on 24`s. sure I could have stayed longer and caught a few more but made less money. lets face it anyone trapping coon or rats it`s all about the money as there sure is no sport in longlining coons. I like all knee boots, all the coons dead and dry and fluffy- no mud or blood or hassles. it was strictly production line factory work that could make $1,000 a day gross and $700 dollars a day net as long as the weather and the body held.

[bblwi]

thanks Bob,
I am about 2/3rds 160 and dry land 1.5 coils and 1/3 waterline coons at this time, but not on your scale. From your discussion it makes sense to expand my line but should it be longer dry land lines or water lines? From an efficiency point of view the dry land seems a logical choice. We don't have large boat able rivers here where I could get enough permissions to run say a 60 80 locations and do that efficiently.

Bryce

[Steve Gappa]

Bob- once again- a little information continues to be a problem.

If you are going to quote me- put things in context.

and for dumb comments of the year- no sport in rat and coon trapping- yet there is sport in catching dumber than a box of rocks coyotes for the live market?

I'm not running 100 traps on a creek, moving up and down it like a manic running and gunning. What I am doing, is setting 2-3 pocket sets on particular locations and not moving them. Over the long haul- the number of coon would be the same. On a good location, hitting it hard and early- I can take 15-20 coon in a week, little more on 24 checks. With my system, I'm taking those same coon, later, over a longer time frame. I'm not trapping coon per se. I'm trapping mink. But picking up a couple of 100 winter coon on my mink line- is pure gravy.

bryce- you have to keep i mind- my winter coon trapping is just not coon- I don't go out of my way to set coon sets- but after 20+ years of trapping the same creeks, I know the coon spots and can fit in 25-30 of them along the mink line.

mustelameister- yes, low %. But I don't have the high peaks like a normal coon run. First of all, I start late- I started Dec 1st this year. So the peaks are done. I don't even set up coon sets until my mink line is totally up and running. As you say, weather is the key, but not perhaps like you think. Temps like lately, give average runs. By average, I'm taking 5-8 coon a run on 22-23 sets. Keep in mind, this is only 10-12 locations. So more locations than not, I get a coon every check. This would be higher except for the "incidental" rats and mink. After a few checks, these incidentals decrease, by this time its colder and the average take with any kind of decent weather, is still in that range. Get cold temps, and I have gone 2-3 weeks with no coon- but I've figured out a reluring/weather pattern correlation that gives me nice bumps- and I'll take 3-4 times a season- 10-15 coon on the same amount of sets.

I find, like many things in trapping- being out there trapping coon in Dec, Jan and Feb- gives me a whole different set of theories as to behavior and habits, that 99% of what I read in method books.

[bobwendt]

steve, no therte is no sport in live coyotes anymore either. I`ve got it down pat now. the sport is how much $$$$can I turn in a single 24 hrs now. why you think guys like the 100 rat day or the 100 coon day or the 25 coyote day or the 37 fox day. it`s the money! and they don`t do it camping on the same spot for 3 months. now that would be sport! like the sportsmans fly swatter, a big hole in the middle to give the fly a sporting chance. for the beginner the sport is in the first catch, first fox or mink or rat. why you see a newby post a picture of first this or that, god bless them, or that tweener time where a guy needs the barn pic to prove himself. I still remember my first everything as do most of you, and the first barn pic too. but now, it`s the money that is the sport, not the catch or kill. anyone can do that, not everyone can make GOOD money at it, in fact hardly anyone can. barn pictures are a dime a dozen. most animals so dumb that those really working it can catch 1,000 or more. now how much sport can there be in any animal one can catch a 1,000 of?

[bblwi]

Steve,
As stated in the above post I need to do more prospecting to find those drowner sites that are going to be very high percentage drowning during all types of weather and also deep enough to drown the animal and with enough current to stay open when temps fall.
Our geography is different here and most of the deeper water sites are also slower moving and that means more nights when the trap is not operational.
I do have some spots that will lend themselves to something other than pockets and also need to have some longer drowner cables. I have several dozen that are 5 ft long but none longer.

Bryce

[lumberjack]

I welcome anybody out to my area of the real world and want to see someone catch 100 mink or say, 25 weasels if we are talking sport.
I aint sayin it cant be done but you would be one whipped Mutha afterwards.
My guess is you would lose a pound for every one of those animals caught.
I always run out of stamina and season before I run out of ground.

[mustelameister]

Bryce--Yes, the majors continue to be outstanding locations year after year. My minors happen to be inbetween these locations, and since I'm in a boat to begin with, it's just as easy to slow down a bit, ease the boat up near the bank, and peek to see if there's been any action.

An example of a minor set location between two majors: Got this spot where a little dribble of a feeder stream empties into the river. High bank on the downstream side with big trees, exposed roots, and foot-deep water out in front for a good 10 feet. Upstream side is a shallow sandbar eventually tapering into a high bank again. 'Coon magnet.

Two pipe sets in the downstream bank, five feet apart, often producing doubles. Vertical pipe on the edge of the sandbar, also a good producer. Pocket at the junction of the upstream bank where sandbar tapers up again. Also a good producer. Four good sets in one location = Major location.

The next major location is a good 200 yards upstream from this site, where once again a sloping bank invites the 'coon to forage for food along the bank and bottom. Three pockets here usually.

Now inbetween these two major locations is nothing of real interest. High bank, maybe ten feet up, almost vertical, keeps the 'coon up on top. But occasionally a large log will be lying diagonal to the river, with the butt end up on top and top end in the water. 'Coon tracks show up on the log and you can see where they've checked out the immediate area.

Here, time permitting, I'll stick in a pipe or pocket, conditions permitting, that I'll be able to easily find during my check up/down the river. Maybe score a 'coon or two, but I'll leave the set in, because I've already invested the time in making the drowning set, and it's easy to check.

Next year, during high water, there may be some deposition downstream of this log, and now we've got a sandbar exposed above the water line. 'Coon magnet. Minor has changed into a major. Meanwhile, these minor sets are producing 'rats and the occasional mink.

I think all sets are prone to being seasonal with regard to food for 'coon. But if I wait them out, keeping the sets functional with regard to fluctuating water levels, eventually they'll come back to the river.

Steve--thanks for the numbers. Makes sense to me.