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Post by Jeffrey on Sept 21, 2006 7:33:22 GMT -6
If you put your trap 3 inches off the bottom, your trap will take up around 5 total inches and then a dive stick at the surface to an inch below, the most inviting opening will be your trap. Set one up on dry land and take a look.
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Post by pat on Sept 21, 2006 13:15:44 GMT -6
This is from observation only. A good friend of mine in eastern lower Michigan is a diehard BE set user. He doesn't bother with pocket sets or other traditional foothold sets for mink or muskrats. He taught me the BE set as he makes it. He doesn't utilze dive sticks or anything like that. I will contact him and see if he will jump in on this thread.
What I can tell you is that he makes it pretty much like Ken Smythe taught him over the telephone and by reading Ken's book. As a life long trapper I could see from the get-go that the BE set just takes advantage of a mink and muskrat's natural travel routes and patterns - especially after freeze up. As the old cliche' goes, "The proof is in the pudding." My friend and instructor is limited on his trapping time due to family limitations and operating a full-time nuisance wildlife management business, but using approximately 160 traps (110's), split between two lines that he runs on alternating days, he will catch in approximately 30 days, around 110-125 mink and 600-700 muskrats. He will only spend around 4 or 5 hours a day on the line. This set is deadly.
Let me see if I can get K9Wileykiller to post on here for all of you.
Pat
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Post by mustelameister on Sept 21, 2006 13:30:30 GMT -6
that got my attention! 110+ mink and 600+ 'rats??
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Post by trappnman on Sept 21, 2006 16:57:29 GMT -6
pat and others- I fully believe the bottom edge sets preduces.
But if you have open water- you will make the same mink catch using footholds and blind sets.
BK has said to me- if I had your open water- I woldn't BE set nearly as much.
In open water, with deep snow- if I can't take him in a blind set- he's not there.
But- and a big BUT- I KNOW BE sets work . I also strongly suspect that their effectiveness, depends on the type of stream.
I hate to keep quoting BK, it will give him a big head...LOL... but he has said- we would be taking the same mink. I have no doubt- that I could trap every other set with BK- and at the end of the season- we would be within 10 mink of each other.
And I agree 100%. BE sets can be deadly. So can pockets. So can pure foothold blind sets. You can only trap a mink once.
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Post by BK on Sept 21, 2006 17:41:21 GMT -6
Pat, twist that guys arm if need be, ;D I'm always interested in someone else's spin on the set.
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Post by pat on Sept 21, 2006 19:20:06 GMT -6
I have called him and requested he post. He is currently experiencing some computer problems but said he would try to post.
I'm not so sure that stream type is all that critical. Ken Smythe traps some awfully fast trout water that is almost clear as crystal. But having said that I can see where a solid rock bottom would pose a real problem with stablization of the trap.
Could you catch the same mink and rat in a pocket or blind set with a foothold. In open water conditions, with or without snow? Probably, but I have never used this set while going head to head with foothold trap sets, and to my knowledge neither has my buddy. But what I do know about the BE set is that it is a lot less hassle than pocket sets and blind sets with foothold traps, especially with high water or freezing conditions. Additionally, my buddy, as well as myself, use a completely different style in coon trapping, so we don't want to worry about coons in our mink and muskrat sets. The BE set makes this possible, especially where the conditions are not condusive to drowning sets for coon. And you have to remember that where my buddy on the east coast of MI traps, and where I trap on the west coast of MI, we are in high density people situations. A coon sitting in shallow water will definately draw a lot of unwanted attention. The area of MI where I live has the highest density of trappers - at least that join associations - then anywhere in MI. I have 2 or 3 Bob Wendt students within 20 miles of me, and 3 O'Gorman students within 20 miles of me as well. Those are the ones I know of. Definately a high competiton area.
BK, like you, I also enjoy learning others little twists on all things trapping.
Pat
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Post by trappnman on Sept 22, 2006 9:47:51 GMT -6
But what I do know about the BE set is that it is a lot less hassle than pocket sets and blind sets with foothold traps, especially with high water or freezing conditions.
If you have any open water- blind sets are no harder or easier ot maintian- they just are.
by strema conditions, I meant prey availability. They aren't going to, in my opinion, hunt underwater on streams that don't produce for them underwater.
I have several streams that are flat sand bottoms- no fish, frogs, etc...but are overgrown grassy banks. Plenty of prey there.
Keep in mind- I use the BE set- but for me- its more bother setting and checking them, then my blind foorhold sets.
the BE set is not a cure all, and neither are blind sets.
Its what you prefer, and your style.
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Post by Jeffrey on Sept 22, 2006 10:50:21 GMT -6
From what I've read here it seems the bottom edge is better after freeze up, are pocket sets better before or after freeze up?
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Post by trappnman on Sept 22, 2006 11:25:45 GMT -6
this is about the only arguement mink men have- which set is better. Truth is, most use a variety.
Pocklets sets again, it depends on your methods and your area. Gerald and another man each took 800+ mink in a short seaosn reliying almost completely on pocket sets and most of this if not all the trapping was before freeze up.
Opening day and early season trapping, I think pockets are as good as anything. During that mid season- after freeze up starts and most quick because of conditions or other pursuits, I don't have luck with pockets.
My explanation is this- early, you take more females and YOY. Family groups can often be gotten with a few checks. My cousin traps WI early, and he feels that trap a week, and you will take all the mink there. There is some truth to that- you do indeed take the locals, but later is when those big males move to the creeks. Where many report % like 80-85% big males.
During that inbetween period, I just don't have a lot of luck with pockets- but to be fair, I no longer make many any more.
but later- when the snows and cold comes- if you can keep a pocket open, those males are hungry and moving.
The BE is a good set also in these conditions- and if you have open water the majority of the time- so are blind sets-
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Post by pat on Sept 22, 2006 12:00:24 GMT -6
trappnman, you are absolutely correct - the best set is the one you choose to use and have confidence in. My buddy and I have a lot of confidence in the BE set due to our circumstances and styles of trapping.
Having said that, I will also say that I have caught more than my fair share - if there is such a thing - in dirt hole sets using fresh mice for bait. I used to use that set/bait combination alot before I learned the BE set. And I still will where the conditions and circumstance warrant it. Darn good fox set too. Real natural.
Maybe what I should have just come and said in my previous post about the BE set was for everybody to go read Ken Smythe's book about the set and it's construction and just follow his instructions. Forget all the fencing and dive stick crap. If done correctly you don't need it.
Pat
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Post by Steve Gappa on Sept 22, 2006 12:35:59 GMT -6
one intersting point about the BE set- is that those using it a lot, eport almost a 100% taking of mink when the mink are moving UPstream.
Interesting, and what it says to me is simple- mink do not normally travel underwater, but they certainly do hunt there!
So- somehow- one should be able to use that knowledge to make better BE set locations.
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Post by thebeav2 on Sept 22, 2006 13:41:01 GMT -6
I have In the past made some 200 mink catches and that was before conibers. The BE set is just another tool. I for one am excited about giving the BE set a try this year.
So all of you BE users, do you have the dog on the top jaw or on the bottom jaw?
I for one still believe you may need a dive stick In some situations I want all those rats and mink that are swimming on the surface In shallow water.
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Post by oldmink on Sept 22, 2006 17:48:57 GMT -6
There is probably no one best set for mink. Many of us do, however, use one or two sets almost exclusively because we have confidence in them. Like Steve, many of my mink are taken in footholds using blind sets. However my largest single season mink catch came using BE sets exclusively. I did not set a single foothold that season.
I have never thought about using dive sticks for mink at BE sets. I do use them for muskrats on underwater trails and the like. I think I am pretty good at being on point with the BE.
The biggest adjustment an first time BE user will have is fighting all the leaves and debris that tend to clog many of your sets. That can be a real pain in the keister.
Around here, southcentral Pennsylvania, the BE set comes into it's own after the weather turns cold and a little snow blows. Thats when all the little rodents mink love to eat are buried deep in underground burrows sleeping the winter off and thus forcing the mink to water for subsistance.
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Post by BK on Sept 22, 2006 17:51:13 GMT -6
You should have made the trip too Beav. ;D Here's the deal Beav......... make the set like the book advocates, forget the rest, you WILL kill all the rats in the area. Spend the time you hope to try fixing something that isn't broke making more sets on a different creek or what ever. Once your out of traps go home and sharpen your knife, or take a nap, .
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