Bottom Edge sets Revisited

[thebeav2]

I just picked up 5 doz 110s I'm going bottom edge setting for mink and rats this winter.
Here's my question.If I was working shallow water lets say 12" deep or maybe even a bit shallower, would the mink and rats tend to swim the surface more then In deeper water? My Idea would be to ram some dive sticks into the banks with my 110s directly below them. Do you think the rats or mink would climb over or will they take the easy route and dive. These dive sets would be used In marginal bottom edge locations Straight banks without under cuts or points jutting out Into the stream.
Although shallow points might call for a dive stick.

Help

[bussro]

In 12" of water they may go between the dive stick and the top of the trap. You might be better off using 2 dive sticks, one upstream, the other downstream. That is assuming they're on the surface to start with.
Have you considered those Duke 150's Tom Olson is selling? A single-spring 160 is just the ticket for what you're wanting to do.

[thebeav2]

Not buying any more traps LOL
I'm thinking If I raise the trap off the bottom so It would be just under the dive stick so if the rat or mink just dipped under the stick It would be In the trap. This trap position might just miss all that junk that clogs your trap when placed on the bottom.
I think I can use my 160s like this with both springs set,I have caught weasels In them when setting coon trails. So I believe they will go off with no problem.
Actually I could Incorporate the dive stick and the trap all into one unit. Just shove the dive stick Into the bank and slide the spring eyes over the stick. Just pull out on the springs to lock the trap In place. I might have to dig out along the bank a bit so I could get the bank side spring In close so the trap would be up close to the bank. But I could just place upright guide stick along the bank to close off that area.

I was out scouting the other day and I have tons of small creeks I can set but most don't have the classic under cut banks and other classic BE locations. Sure there are some BE locations but I'm not spending the time looking for them.
In most cases I would just blind set and run some pockets but I want to give this BE thing a try.

Gary

[walkercoonhunter(Aaron L.)]

beav from what i understand about mink is that when they go to the water its straight to the bottom....i cant talk from expierence only what i have picked up on reading.....mink arent strong swimmers so they would rather walk on the bottom.....as far as rats i can talk a little expierence here....a rat will do the same as a beaver...if they go under its tight against the bottom in swift water or streams or rivers...lakes and ponds might be different because of the still water....if i was going to put dive sticks i would rather get a bushy type top from a sappling and run it into the bank over my trap making a almost like shelf over top of the water with the branches sticking into the water....then they will go there for cover also......

[lumberjack]

Ive never used dive sticks and do ok.
Im not saying rats and mink dont swim between the top and bottom, I have never tried placing a bodygripper halfway or on top.
With our water fluctuations that would be a trick (trying to keep one centered on top).
With that being said my style of BE sets have a groove cut in the bank except for bridge walls.
On bridge walls I always lay a flat rock completely over the trap with the rock holding the outside jaw corners, not just on the spring.
That creates an underwater tunnel that works for me.

[DaveM]

Why not try a few sets with two traps. One bottom edge and one "top edge".

[ColdSteel]

I must be doing something wrong with the bottom edge set .I tried it on several creeks and very poor results.These creeks didn't have much mink sign at all but the rats were there.I have had better luck catching beaver at bottom edge sets than rats .I may be setting too deep ?What do you boys consider deep for a bottom edge set?

[thebeav2]

Well my buddy BK (BE guru) tells me a foot of water Is just about the limit on water depth for the majority of his BE sets.

Gary

[ColdSteel]

Well,more tham likely thats my problem.Lets see a 110 is 4 1/2 inches I think so that would put the top of trap 7 to 8 inches under water most of my sets were a little deeper than that.I think I will give 220's a try and see how they do also.Thanks for the info Beav

[Ridgerunner]

walkercoonhunter ... yes, yes, a brushy limb for a dive stick ... give 'em what they like!

Ridge

[Bob Jameson]

I have caught many mink in shallow top side 50/50 in/out water tight edge set ups with a 110 pinned into the bank or held in position with a stablizer. Especially those grass hang over areas along streams that have a tunnel effect. A good security rat feed bed and rest area as well. Mink know these rat traits,mice and vole shelter areas and river rats frequent these places too.

Mink swim these shallow water edges as do the rats. I believe mink use this as an ambush tactic to better surprise a rat or other prey species as well as being able to cruise an area more unnoticed also.They also know when to dive to look for other food opportunities

I personally prefer deeper water for BE sets but haven't set many BE sets in shallow water to know their effectiveness. They are extremely effective on either animal. I like mine placed in a conibear stabilizer when possible about 2-3 inches off the bottom.

Mink are good swimmers and are quite agile and moblie in the water. Ever see one go after a trout in a pool? I was very fortunante to observe one on a very rare occasion.They can move when they have too.

[ColdSteel]

Bob what do you call deep?Like I said I didn't have very good results with it and I did a lot better on beaver.Maybe by me trapping in the south with a lot of open water has something to do with it or I may just be missing the boat

[Bob Jameson]

deeper is a relative term but to put a measurement to it my BE sets are probably 15 to 30 inches or so down. I never measured but that can also vary considerbly with each stream. You may need to focus on smaller streams to tighten up or funnel the mink routes better. Big water is best worked with pocket sets since some of the better BE locations may be too deep to access easily and difficult to check with high water conditions.

[rk660]

I got to observe a mink hunt a deep pool numerous times. he would be in the concreate rip rap below a irrigation ditch dam and would come out into the pool when I'd walk the top of this dam. You wouldnt believe how agile he was underwater. He would swim upsidedown, turn on a dime, dive and go straight down to bottom and come up with a creek chub in his mouth. I never could catch this little prick as I never could get a deceint set into the rocks, but he entertained me many times diveing out of the rocks when checking traps. He seemed to use all depths of this pool, deep, just under surface, mid depths. and he was fast too. Dont ever think that mink arent a good swimmer. They probiibly cant stay under as long as a rat or beaver, but I can see how they easly catch fish after observing the show he gave me that winter.

[BK]

Perhaps I wasn't clear Beav.,many of my sets are in about a foot of water, I like to set in about a foot of water,......but I make sets much deeper and some sets the water doesn't always cover the trap.
Some may not like this method as it doesn't take any welding,weigh much, and the cost is very low, but,..........

On deep sets I can't reach that have a reasonably soft bottom I often use a short (12-18 inch) length of 1x2 sharpened on one end.
I run this through the spring (not the eye of the spring)and give the 110 a 90 Deg. twist.
This locks the trap onto the stake at what ever distance up the stake you wish.

[mustelameister]

If you've got soft bottoms, here's a method I've used since I was about 12 years old growing up on Lake Onalaska for anchoring #110s. That was, and still is, refuge trapping, which means the trap can't be closer than 3' to the 'rat hut. I learned how to "bottom edge" muskrats long ago, but never really applied it to stream banks for mink until later in life.

Those big 'rat huts often had runs that were a couple feet deeper than the surrounding bottom, and sometimes were a couple feet wide. This was back in the 'rat glory days, and I've never seen the marsh like that since. 'Rat huts that were easily 5 feet high and ten feet across. Runs that looked like small beaver runs.

The trick was to anchor that #110 so it was up off the bottom, yet it was snugged against one of the "banks" of the deep run. Here's what I used, and still use to this day on BE sets:

Drive a spike through a length of lath dead center, about 2/3 from one end. The spike should be just longer than the diameter of the eye of the spring on the #110. I keep a 5-gallon pail of these in the boat with me as I'm working a river.

The #110 can be set and then slid down the lath to the nail. Rotating the trap around the lath will cause the nail to slide into the eye of the spring. A couple twists and the trap is securely anchored.

With the spike 2/3 of the way up the lath, or 1/3 up the lath depending on which way you look at it . . . you can use either end to stick into the mud depending on how soft the bottom is. If you've got a real hard bottom, and the lath only goes in a couple of inches, you can bust some off or chop it off on the line to allow the trap to rest just above the bottom.

Ideally, I like the top of the lath to be below the surface of the stream, river, whatever you're setting. However, if you sort of know where it is, you can easily spot it under the water's surface once you're upon the set. This keeps duck hunters and others from easily spotting any markings of this set.

The downside of this set is that the trap is securely anchored, even after the 'rat or mink is caught. Therefore, I attempt to use only strong #110s to prevent the critter from excessively working against the trap jaws. Weak #110s, especially in shallow water, have no place in these sets.

Works for me.

[jimdrummond]

I have been using the bottom edge set for quite a few years and I found out that water depth doesnt matter. I've had good luck with ths set anywheres from 2" right up to 4 feet of water. I havent tried deeper water only because I cant make the set in deeper water. You have to remember one thing about this set, The colder it gets outside, the better it wil work for you. When the air is colder than the water temp.,the mink with stay in the water more, which means you wil find more of them in your traps.
Under the ice is the best.

[ColdSteel]

Thats what I am wondering who does good with this set in mild climates?I hardly ever have to worry about breaking ice.As a matter of fact most days after 9.00a.m. I can run my sets in a long sleeve shirt ;D

[jimdrummond]

If you know theres rats in a stream, find an area with a somewhat strong current. Look for a rock or stump that sticks out into the water that makes a little backwash. Make your set at the farthest point out . Another good spot is on the downstream side of a bridge abutment. If you can see the corner under water thats where you put your trap. You will usually catch mainly rats there til it gets colder

[thebeav2]

I have been told by BK that this set is a killer rat set In mild weather. he will clean out the rats early and then be set up for mink. I would rather catch 3 rats then one mink any day so bring em on.
Even when blind setting and running baited pockets I have found that sever weather will really turn up your mink catch. Here's where the bE set should shine most of the available prey will be under water.