Position of traps at pocket sets for mink?

[BK]

While I don't use many pocket sets (perhaps I should use more) and I have my own thoughts on this subject........... I walk past lots of pocket sets every season, I see traps twisted many different ways in front of pockets.
I thought it might be interesting to bounce this off the members here.

[trappnman]

On coon pockets I put the dog at 6 oclock- with the pocket being 12:00

On mink.....on pockets or punch sets- I guess I put the dog at 3:00- the trap just seems to fit better that way.

On vertical banks- dog at 6:00.

On muskrat feedbeds, I usuallt put the dog toward the bank at 12:00.

Why all the varied postions? I guess cause I feel it doesn't really matter and I position the trap the way it seems to fit the location.

[dj88ryr]

Always 3:00 or 9:00 on pockets. I guess this is because I use 1.5 cs for mink and am looking for more of a body gripping action if I can get it.

[briankroberts]

Guess I'm like everybody else on this one, I like',m at about 3 o'clock also, with the dog tight against the edge of the pocket and if its to wide I add a small weed on the other side of the pocket.....B.....

[Computerhater]

If targeting mink,I have never understood why anyone would put their dog in any other position than 6:00 at a pocket set or in rare occasions 12:00. On a blind set where do you put the dog? Everyone puts it at 6:00. Why? Because it is assumed that the mink is traveling down the bank and you want him to come between the jaws not over them, especially not over the dog. Now at a pocket set where is the mink coming from. Most times he still will be coming down the bank. So as he approaches the pocket, if the dog is at 6:00 he still comes between the jaws but if it is at 3 or 9:00 he is coming over the jaws and quite posssibly over the dog. I do on rare occasions when I can make a small tight pocket, put the dog at 12:00 slightly back up in the hole. But, unless the mink is coming directly across the creek he will still be coming between the jaws. I have Gerald Schmitts book and in it he shows the dog at the 3:00 position. I asked him about it at the NTA in Ohio and if I remember right he said he has just always done it that way. I didn't disagree with him I just told him how I did it and that I was quite surprised when I saw how he does it. I very rarely get a fired trap at a pocket without a catch and when I do it is usually a coon that did it. I'm not sure if it matters in most cases but I think that having the dog at the 3 or 9:00 position can occasionally cause a miss on the short legged mink.

Randy

[Mallard]

I've ended up doing the same as Randy, as I figure more mink are doing the hugging and peeking as opposed to swimming strait in. It seems many books reference dogs at 3 and 9, and some of these books even suggest jump sticks perpendicular to the bank. To me this is suggesting having a mink go over the jaw as opposed to between them. Some authors even do that 1:30 twist which seems to be a comprimise? I went to having the dog at 6:00 wit the trap about 2/3 out of the pocket almost exclusively. I'm also a victum of loving the 1 1/2 LS, so maybe I just like to go against the grain.

[BK]

Yup,..........

[trappnman]

Well............since the person that catches more mink year out and year in than anyone I know puts the dog at 3:00, and most mink trappers put theirs at 6:00 and some like me really don't care.....it would seem to me that for mink/rats, and maybe everything else as far as I know- the position of the dog really doesn't matter.

It also depends alot on the trap- I use 4 kinds of traps for mink- 1.5 coil, #2 dls, 1.5 ls and a some #1 ls.

However it is stabilized the most is what I do- more mink are lost through "tippy" traps than the wrong positioned dog- IMNSHO, of course.

[dj88ryr]

Of course if everything were the same at pockets we could be more absolute in discussion. How do you make your pockets? I use a trimed down tile spade and make the side walls fairly steep, in my case the mink HAS to come in to the pocket from the front. I use steep banks when I make the pocket, if the bank is a gently sloping one, I will use another kind of set. So, again, in my situation the dog at 3:00 or 9:00 makes sense, but I can also see the theory of 6:00, if you are using another type of pocket, my pockets require the 3-6 dog location, if you are looking for the mink to pass between the jaws.

[Computerhater]

Well, let's back up the train a minute. For traps I use 1 1/2 and 1 3/4 coils. No longsprings unless out of traps which is rare. I agree with you Steve about the tippy traps causing more misses than anything else. Not only mink misses but coon, rats, beaver, etc. That's why I prefer the coils over the longsprings. Now D.J. brings up a good point about how we all make our pocket sets. Probably we all make them a little different. I'm not sure there is a wrong way or a right way but I believe that some pockets are better than others. I make my pockets with a tile spade. The bank is shaved straight up and down on each side of where the hole will be dug for a couple feet. No coming in from above or clinging to the bank. The hole is then dug into the face of this sheer wall that I have created. I can just as easily blind set the sheer wall as well as having a trap in front of the hole. Many times when the water was of sufficient depth that the mink jumped in and drowned right away I have been able to see their tracks in the soft mud, hugging the sheer wall leading up to the pocket. An older fellow, (Charles Dobbins ) some of you may have heard of, showed me this set up years ago. He sometimes would double and triple set his pockets by setting up the approaching sheer walls. All traps were on sliders leading off in different directions. Now if your pockets are designed differently to where you think the approaching mink is going to be coming straight in to your pocket then yes I can see the 3 or 9:00 positioning of the trap.

Steve, you said you really don't care where you position the dog at your pocket sets. Is that because you are not sure from what direction the mink may approach so one place is as good as the next? Is it because of the way you design your pockets? I ask this only because I believe although I may be wrong that most all mink trappers DO care where the dog is on their blind sets. Most want it in the 6:00 position. I know I do. With that said, when I'm making pocket sets I am under the same mindset. I want the dog in a certain spot because I feel the mink should be approaching the set just as he would a blind set most of the time unless he is coming directly across the creek from the opposite side.

Randy

[Wright Brothers]

I asked a trapper of the year award winner this same question last Sunday and to my surprize he said "dosn't matter, how ever the trap fits best". If he's spending to much time wondering wich way of approach and bedding in a way the trap won't fit good, he's getting away from the kiss method. I thought some of you would say put the dog towards the bank so it's away from the three approaches. Maybe that's why I like dogless traps .

[Maineman]

I think the dog would have allot to do with where you are setting...I think most would agree that they want the animal to step "between" rather than over a Jaw...With that said, a trap placed inside the pocked would have me setting a dog at the 3 or 9 position to take advantage of an entry into the hole...If setting "Outside" the pocket, I understand the 12 or 6 position to capitalize on animals coming down the bank...

Personally, I'm more interested in a solid bedding than dog position. Most of my pockets are for coon with a trap placed just outside the hole with the dog set at 12:00 and the dog protected...

[mustelameister]

My mink pockets are of small diameter, and usually have grass overhanging the hole. You wouldn't know they were there, most of the time.

Drowning cable out to deep water, no longer than necessary. #11 DLS with ends of springs just shoved into mud on either side of pocket. Makes for very stable trap. No wobble ever. Small depression scooped for trap allows for pan to be at substrate level when set.

This also means the dog is at the 12:00 position. I try to position the trap so the dogged jaw is directly below the lip of the opening. A guard stick is placed just outside the loose jaw at the 6:00 position.

Mink will not come into the trap from the 6:00 position with the guard stick. All mink will enter from 3:00 or 9:00 position. All mink will pass through the jaws, and not over. With enough repetition, this will become a KISS system without having to think it through.

Small, strong trap ensures the mink will be down the cable, and out of sight. LAST thing I want is a larger foothold trap that functions as a bodygripper for mink. A dead, exposed mink won't work where I trap.

Dobbin's guard traps on either side of the pocket are excellent if you've got the right spot. Set at least three feet away there will be no interference with the center pocket trap. All three drowning cables can be anchored off to one post, weight, etc.

[JLDakota]

There is a school of thought that says dig a pocket and set a trap "in front of it", a blind set if you will, as if the pocket weren't even there. In that case dog is placed at 6 and a I use a guide stick by the dog . This set I use when I'm short of bait or can't get a deep pocket in or really in a hurry. I expect him to cling close to the bank from either side of the pocket, let the subtle guide by the dog keep him between the jaws and don't care if he goes in the pocket or not as its only a visual attractor. On 80% of my mink pockets I landscape to make the approach vertical, dig a deep pocket with a cut down tile spade (4") or a half circle digging tool that makes a round hole approximately 4-5", at least a foot deep and higher then wide is not a bad thing. Beings I live on the river and have access to lots of bait, I subscribe to the theory of a fine gentleman in Nashua, Ia. and put a chunk of bait back there that gives the mink a "reason" to go into the hole to claim the huge prize his eyes show him are there and by which his nose is being overwhelmed. I set the trap "in the hole" with the dog at 2-vs-3 only because it allows lever and the chain to ride tighter to the side of pocket which I prefer rather then to having both sitting right on his approach. I have had a big buck drop a rat they had killed and were hauling back to their den (tracks in snow) drop that rat at the hole and go in to get what their ego would not allow them to leave and end up on the bottom of the drowner. Two for the price of one at that set. The "lookers but move along down the line" IMO you don't have if you give them enough reason to enter. Another tip on pockets I'll add, taught me by a good friend who can pocket trap more mink in a two week period then you'd be willing to believe, is also an "in" the pocket guy and the finishing step to his pocket is to mold the mud around the door of the pocket with your hands so you close down the opening about 1/4 -1/2" so the entrance is a little smaller then the rest of the pocket. It squares them up on the pocket and there's no sneaking around the pan. Jim

[trappnman]

This is an interesting point.

I really feel that the dog position, and thus the jaw postions- really doesn't matter on rats/mink.

I make few mink pockets- usually just a further indentation on an indentation set up (resting set) and just about always place a weed or twig so that the trap is bracketed between the bank and the guide stick.

I guess ultimate position is based on chain, springs, etc. I reiterate- the way the trap seems to "fit" the best.

Coon though always get the dog at 6 oclock- with a guide stick.

BTW- Gerald feels that a lot of his mink are taken as the SWIM up to the set- not work in from the bank. I know from reading tracks in snow- or rather, the LACK of tracks on the bank in snow- that a large % of my winter mink are caught from a water approach.

That why I have no doubt that cree....errrr... BKs BE sets work- and work well. A winter hunting mink is doing 2 things- running tunnels under the snow or working the water- or both.

So the aim of the trapper becomes either 1) find the resting places- observation areas, landing spots- whatever you call them- or 2) find the points underwater at the pools mink hunt.

As long as this is turning into a general mink thread- I am absolutely convinced- written in stone- that mink travel very little underwater- UNLESS they are hunting.

Randy, Bob and others have reported that almost to a mink- most of the catches in their underwater BE sets are caught going 1 direction- upstream.

This would seem to be the right direction to hunt underwater- pursued game would eventually "turn" with the current- and any fleeing actions would be more sluggish- and perhaps game would hold tighter to the bank when being pursued upstream?

[BK]

Trappnman, I beg to differ......... ............ Walking or swimming, below water or above, I feel all mink are close to the bank for the largest part if they are in the water.
A mink that has ben drawn across a small stream that dosen't have enough current to swing his body down stream might come in straight, but that's about it. (IMHO)
I also feel jaw position does make a difference in trapping rats and mink.
I have my best luck with the 6 o'clock position at pocket sets, it also puts the most sensitive part of the pan where you want it.

( We kinda do some suff different don't we) ;D

[Steve Gappa]

I don't understand exactly where you are disagreeing:

Walking or swimming, below water or above, I feel all mink are close to the bank for the largest part if they are in the water.


Me too.

If you are disagreeing that the large % of BE mink are taken going up stream- I am just going by what you
and others have reported

If you think dog position makes a difference- how many mink do you think you would lose by putting your dog at a different postion?

As someone who sets a lot of FOOTHOLDS- I don't see it. My best 2 sets were unabaited "pockets"- one with 5, one with 4 mink- and in both case- dog was at 3 oclock.

I'm thinking this "dog position" has as much credance as "changing boots for coyotes" does.

I think the % of mink "rolled out" of traps due to dog position is miniscule- and btw- isn't Faler the only one that advocated this in print...and what does he know, right bk?

[BK]

You didn't capitalize BK
I think we should have a poll to see how many feel jaw position is an issue in trapping mink. ;D

[dj88ryr]

I thought his nick name was CB ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D And I did capitalize that!! LMAO!!

[kevinupp]

[glow=red,2,300]I thought his nick name was CB [/glow]


Thems fighten words....LMAO ;D ;D