break away devices

[JWarren]

If your state requires a bad of specified poundage how are you ensuring that you meet this standard? Consider that manufacturers and state agencies have no standard test. Chances are your state may or may not have a method to test compliance however manufacturer claims probably have nothing to do with their compliance testing.

Do you:

1. simply purchase a device advertised as below the legal limit and forget about it

2. try to find out how your state is testing them and then try to test your own equipment based on their standards before using

3. send in sample snares to the state for compliance testing before setting your equipment in the field (only an option with few states)

4. rig up a test yourself based on the literature available and hope that your in compliance with unknown state standards

I would venture to guess most of you do #1. Others with the foresight to know the inconsistencies of manufacturers might do #2 but chances are their state has not thought about a standard so they are forced to do #4. #3 would remove all doubt but few states give that option.
BAD manufacturers, state agencies, and snare users need to pull their heads out of their posterior and find a solution to this problem.
More and more states are arbitrarily setting up snare testers that are as likely to find noncompliance as not with any given BAD regardless of advertised claims. Alot of people are going to get in trouble fast if they aren't thinking about this.

Comments?

[mean1]

I normally do #1, but we have a machine at work that we use for material test breakage. I purchased some of O'gormans 180# bads and they opend up at 190-200 on a strait pull test. This would be right as they started to break open. Not sure if that is the way to test them but it was fun seeing what i got. I have never lost a yote out of the 180's, but 150's i have. If you go any lower than a 180 better to use a spring with a camlock. Never had a warden check my bads, mostly tags and license check. Goodluck



mean1

[JWarren]

Those 190-200 lb BADs from O'gm would likely register at around 500 lb on a 2.5" loop pull test. I mention this becuase the 2.5" loop pull test is about as close to a standard as one can find in the literature. I don't know what method of test ohio uses but if loop pull then those O'gm BADs would almost certainly be over the legal limit. If Ohio is like most other states they haven't even thought about it. The problem is if/when they get a machine and decide to start testing and enforcing. Innocent parties like yourself could easily be found in violation depending on what test they decide to use.

[robertw]

Some states regulations are worded that the BADS "must be commercially manufactured".

[Rally Hess]

JWarren,
This is an ongoing debate in the BMP now and has had much discussion. There is currently no standard for testing snares or BADS yet recognized. This subject has received a great deal of time and is currently being worked on.

[robertw]

Hopefully these people will contract with you Rally and Dick Sinrud and a few others that actually know what they are doing to work on this!

[Rally Hess]

[JWarren]

robertw said:

Some states regulations are worded that the BADS "must be commercially manufactured".

that's just ridiculous. For some reason people (and states apparently) think these manufacturers are infallible. I contend that the advertised weight of a bad doesn't tell you anything about the break strength unless test physics are also advertised. If the manuf. advertised weight is worthless then i don't see where it matters if the bad is homemade or not. Basically it's a free for all.

[robertw]

Jwarren;"that's just ridiculous. For some reason people (and states apparently) think these manufacturers are infallible."

No, what is rediculous is that some states regulate that trappers must use these on Cable Restraints! It is illegal to set these devices "where livestock may be present" so why the need for the BADS? These same states have no large game animals that are potential conflicts like moose or elk or endangeered species like wolves yet are stuck with this stuff because they were used in the Wisconsin Data!

[JWarren]

I honestly think the regs. were set in most states before anyone had a concept of what will hold a coyote or release deer. Sullivan's hook is a 280 on 2.5 pull but loses coyotes on a long western snare all day. Hopkins and O'gm hooks are actually 4-500 lb devices on loop pull but are sworn by by most western snarers.
Let me ask you this, if you were called upon to design a test for all states to use for compliance what would you use? If they do the loop pull most of the popular bads will be illegal.

[robertw]

JWarren;"I honestly think the regs. were set in most states before anyone had a concept of what will hold a coyote or release deer."

The above statement can not be accomplished. You can not release a high % of deer and hold a high % of coyotes with the same device. Remember, we are talking about neck caught deer. Cable Restraints do have deer stops.

[JWarren]

When I'm talking deer release I'm not including neck captures. In my opinion a neck captured deer is easier to hold than a coyote. I wouldn't expect any device I use for coyotes to release neck caught deer.

[JWarren]

I probably offended the BAD manufacturers and killed my post since these guys are usually the only ones who reply to these type posts. I wonder what the regular folks are doing for BADs and if or how they are checking them. Not everybody is going to pay big bucks for a product and not question the secifications and/or legality of the device.

[trappnman]

what else can you really go on but the manufactors numbers? As far as legality, I think it would be a tough sell convicting with the manufactors numbers i nhand. If worried about not releasing right- self tests or experence I'd think.

[Clyde Isaak]

Following is how approved break-awares are listed in the North Dakota regulations. If an individual makes their own snares they can have the G&F test them or any manufacturer can have their devices tested and if they meet the standards they will be included in the regulations.

Snares must possess a snare lock or breakaway device that has been tested to break or disassemble at no more than 350 pounds pull. Following is a list of commercially manufactured and available snares that have been tested and meet the requirements (as manufactured by the company): 1) Hopkin S-hook,2) Gregerson leg snare, 3) Gregerson neck snare, 4) Kelly (Amberg), 5) Snare Shop ND lock and stop system, 6) Grawe's 12 ga bullet lock snare with release, 7) Sullivan Breakaway S-hook, 8) Snare Shop Breakaway S-hook, 9)Snare Shop Breakaway J-hook, 10) Grawe's "Mini Mag" snare with release.

[Bristleback]

I use Marty's 265 Elite BAD; not sure how it's tested. I trust Marty, and he's snared a couple coyotes.

[JWarren]

The problem is nobody knows hows you determine a poundage on a BAD. This includes the people making killing off of them and also the state agencies. Seems like the only manufactuer that has been vocal about the problem is the guy from thompson snares and I don't even know if he is selling BADs. If so I haven't seen them.

The manufacturers are skinning trappers if they aren't working to solve this. I could hook up about anything and call it so and so pounds and if I sold it in a trapping supply house trappers would buy it hook line and sinker no matter what it actually was. We have known for many years now about this problem but nobody seems to have made any progress aside from pocketing dollars based solely on advertising claims and ignorance. At least NoDak has listed some legal devices so trappers know they won't go down for their ignorance. The list does make me wonder how NoDak is testing since the listed devices have a huge range of break strengths.

[JWarren]

trappnman said:

what else can you really go on but the manufactors numbers? As far as legality, I think it would be a tough sell convicting with the manufactors numbers i nhand. If worried about not releasing right- self tests or experence I'd think.

That may be true about conviction but what about the guys who don't want to pay out the azz for a number on paper in a cataloge. Don't you think we should have something to go on besides "because 'insert manufacturer here' said so".