|
Post by Lone trapper on Apr 24, 2007 13:59:39 GMT -6
I have the fresh frozen glands from 22 bobcats along with some belly fat. What would be the value of these? And who buys them?
|
|
|
Post by coyotewhisperer on Apr 24, 2007 14:42:59 GMT -6
Cat glands are going for 100$ a gallon you want the anal glands with about 3 inches of intestine and the empty bladders. Keep the bladder urine seperate. I'm not aware of the belly fat being worth anything. RK and Bob jameson buy well handled glands.
Jeff
|
|
|
Post by rk660 on Apr 27, 2007 17:24:49 GMT -6
Im pretty well set for cat glands this year, but I'm sure you'll have no problem finding another lure maker to buy them, as cat glands are in good demand.
|
|
|
Post by Bob Jameson on Apr 27, 2007 18:57:45 GMT -6
What are the cuts and how much urine is in them or fecal matter. I always need cat glands. Dont need any fat only glands. Volume of true glands only will determine the actual value.
|
|
|
Post by Lone trapper on Apr 27, 2007 20:21:19 GMT -6
The ear, armpit, hock, sex, and anal glands with the bladder included. There are no feces in the glands, no excess urine, and the anals have only a small amount of intestine on most of them. Around an inch. I think I might save these, but depending on how much they're worth I might sell them. LT
|
|
|
Post by bobwendt on Apr 28, 2007 5:53:15 GMT -6
there is no such thing as arm ear hock and sex glands for lure concoction that I am aware of. those are lymph nodes or testicles or ovarys- old time wives tale stuff. the ear and cheek glands cats use to "rub" with you can`t get out of the skin. what is it you saved? I know many save that stuff, and foot pads etc but in my mind that is all filler and not much different than hamburger from the store. I do place great value on fat broken down with gall however, and a small portion of liver from the cat ( or fox or whatever animal you are making lure for). if you don`t think it has value just smell coon fat vs red fox fat vs coyote fat etc. and same for their livers . to me bobcat anals are worth $1 each, or maybe I should say I wouldn`t sell them for any less than that, but I`m not selling or buying. I use all myt own catch and don`t need any more. aq gallon of anals probably several hundred dollars, maybe way more. throw in all the hamburger and not only not worth much, maybe not worth much at all. not to me at least. my basic gland lure is 100 clean anal patches ( butts) with no intestine or turds, 1 whole liver, 10 gall bladders, a handfull of fat and cover w/winter collected meat fed froze out pee. let rot all summer and grind in august. then strain and mix in other this and thats as to taste
|
|
|
Post by Bob Jameson on Apr 28, 2007 7:24:55 GMT -6
Anal rim cut with short intestine attached, stripped of poop, bladder and small urine content, utereus of females, testicles. Minimal urine. Those are the cuts I use. Any thing else to me is added volume but for homemade product you will be fine with what you have.
|
|
|
Post by romans117 on Apr 28, 2007 7:46:20 GMT -6
So let me get this right. Cut around the anus and pull out two or three inches and cut. Strip out the fecal and freeze? Ovaries, bladder, uterus, and testicles. Do the individual glands need to be kept separately? Same on coyotes? Please correct me if I am wrong. Does what I describe constitute the proper handling of glands?
|
|
|
Post by bobwendt on Apr 28, 2007 8:01:57 GMT -6
bob j. or others, why do you save utereus/ ovaries/ testicles? serious, because all the old time formulas say so, or do you actually beleive there is value in the way of a smell specific to the animal there? my opinion is there isn`t. same for any intestine at all. not to say all parts of any animal don`t smell like that animal, but not in a way we can use it I don`t think, other than maybe dragging a fresh coyote or fox carcase with skin still on back into the bush and then make a set there for the mate or parent or litter mate at the end of the scent trail. i.e. the wet dog smell. but the wet dog smell is the pee and anal secretions they role in and the combined everything else particular to that animal. an interesting side note is women have great varience in smell attraction to men. ask them! they will tell you they like a real man smell, to some means stinky pits, to others a clean man smell, to others a boar pee smell. and all of us smell different to them. we all like boobys of every shape and size but ignore womens smell unless putrid. yet women rank man smell as near the top in attractiveness. of course I`m speaking of sexual here and not territirial or dominance or food as in many animal lures we use. just a fwiw that I extrapolate over to how a coyote knows IT`S MATE and pups from others. or a fox etc etc. the old farmers trick to get a ewe to accept an orphan is to vicks vapo rub her nose, or skin her dead lamb and drape the new one for a day or three. more to this lure than even the most accomplished lure makers think, myself included. but I contend the anals and pee are #s 1 and 2 and everything else is number 5,000 or whatever.
|
|
|
Post by Bob Jameson on Apr 28, 2007 13:24:44 GMT -6
I have used all the reproductive organs and vents as long as I remember.There were no books or training manuals on lure formulation back when I began in the late 60's. The sum of these parts make up a good blend of characteristic odors of that specific animal when well prepared.
I have worked with vent only formulations and a blend of the cuts mentioned. They both have similiar if not mirrored odors when in a state of age with no urine added. The only urine in these gland cuts will be trace odors left in the bladders and residual odors left in the reproductive organs.
The addition of a good urine (whether using alot or a little) and other items will make a gland lure specific to that formulators standards as to what they feel is a good representation of that animal. Or the formulation is built to elicit a specific intended animal response.
I have had this conversation with a few others who formulate and have good knowledge on the subject regarding glands and gland products.There are two specific types of gland products in my opinion.
One is what I refer to as a trueness of odor gland lure. This odor represents a specific animals basic naturally occuring body and glandular secretion odors. The other is a lure that has gland ingredients that also has a number of other ingredients in the mix. This type of lure is not a true gland lure in the sense of what I term a trueness of odor gland lure.
This type of formulated gland product has been altered due to the addition of the other glands and /or musks, essential oils etc.. A good and effective product, but quite different in odor and it has the ability to cause a different reaction by that animal. This type of product is a good shoot in the hole type lure.
Both gland types work very well but the odor representation is quite different. Each has their place in how I use them and what response I am attempting to trigger at a specific set.
For example for scent post type sets I prefer a true gland lure. For dirt holes,flat sets and food cache type sets I like the gland lure mix combo. When working some pre trapped areas for the first time the true gland scent works best for me.
When you start using multi ingredient formulated products in a worked over area you can get some walk byes on some of these products. Simple true gland odors work best for me under these conditions alone or with a good bait.When working a new, fresh area just about anything will work initially.
A good gland lure is truly the summation of its parts. Each maker has their own thoughts and beliefs on formulation and how it should be built in terms of ingredients. Years of experience has taught me that animals can be caught with a number of different odor representations. Gland, food, curiosity, urines and a host of other man made or store bought materials can catch furbearers.
There are lots of good products out there and most will work well if the user does his part and he has the animals to catch. Gland lures are made any number of different ways. Regardless of these variations they most likely all will work in the hands of a novice or seasoned trapper if he's on the game and can make a basic set.
|
|
|
Post by rk660 on Apr 28, 2007 13:56:04 GMT -6
I stick to anal rings and bladders, whether the other stuff has merit or not I really dont know, as still new to the whole game myself. My guess and only a guess would be reproductive organs would have more value used fresh than rotted. Once rotted I'd think just another rotted tissue.
|
|
|
Post by 3n on Apr 28, 2007 14:01:03 GMT -6
Bob Jameson...Do you think a true gland lure should be fresh...The glands not rotted down? Sorry Rich you beat me to the punch.
|
|
|
Post by Bob Jameson on Apr 28, 2007 16:33:19 GMT -6
I have made and used both kinds. There is considerable difference in odor as to whether one is significantly better than the other that is yet to be determined.
I have used private stock fresh gland lure with little to no age and other batches partially aged and yet another broken down completely. They have all produced well.
I use the fresh gland material formula when I am in a must catch situation. Or when I feel I am working with some veteran animals that have shown signs of not working other types of presentations and odors.
A fresh gland lure formula has its merits and holds the nearest true odor I have found when it has set and aged. The aging is not a break down age process it is a blending age process where a few ingredients blend as a single base odor. There is no further tissue break down as the glands have been stopped prior to the final stage.
A fresh gland lure color is a fleshy tone and the material is quite paste like compared to the grey/black typical aged gland material.
The retail sale of a fresh gland lure would be extremely costly. Basically not possible as there is not much volume at the end of the process to sell in such a manner.There is very little tissue break down so you get what you started with and not much more. The average trapper wouldnt want to pay what it would cost to buy it by the ounce or 4oz I dont believe.
You could extend the formula by adding alot of glycerine, glycol and urine etc but you would completely alter the fresh gland odor if too much urine was added. It is a very subtle material in odor. Extremely mild but very appealing and as I said as close to the real deal as one can get.It has its place and does its job well.
|
|
|
Post by robertw on Apr 28, 2007 16:36:44 GMT -6
I agree with BobW and Rich on this, the rest is just filler in my opinion.
BobW, Those anals are worth more than any $1 each for your own use! A Gallon of anal glands with little or no intestine....Would easily take a couple hundred (or more) to fill a gallon jar!
I do also understand where Bob Jameson is coming from as a lure manufacturer and needing bulk to sell lure at todays prices...
|
|
|
Post by CoonDuke on Apr 28, 2007 18:44:37 GMT -6
Here's a pint of red fox anals, nothing but the butt ring, hair removed, no intestine, each individual one washed by hand in warm distilled water. Broken down and aged anaerobically in a small amount of distilled water to keep them covered. The odor reminds me of the sweet, musky smell of ripe wild grapes. I always thought the fox grape was named because of Aesops Fable about "The Fox and the Grapes"...but found out the name came from the musky odor of the ripe grapes was similar to the odor of the red fox. ;D So what is the pint worth? ;D
|
|
|
Post by bobwendt on Apr 28, 2007 19:43:05 GMT -6
$50, I`ll take `em and pay shipping. put them on the cru defense fund and I`ll go a 100 dollar frogskin.
|
|
|
Post by CoonDuke on Apr 28, 2007 19:48:47 GMT -6
Sorry Bob...I plan on testing the whole bottle myself. ;D
|
|
|
Post by bobwendt on Apr 29, 2007 5:29:17 GMT -6
figured. I`d a uses pee to cover instead of water. but I suppose yours might have some value anyway, he he.
|
|
|
Post by Bob Jameson on Apr 29, 2007 6:30:06 GMT -6
If any of you gentleman would kindly toss those reproductive parts (bladder,uterus, hair free testicles,1st 3 inches of intestine from the anal vent only, no feces) that you are discarding into any kind of clean container ( an old clean milk jug will work fine).Doesnt take long to remove these parts. Just a minute once you have done it a few times.
Freeze them until you are done collecting I will gladly pay you a reasonable fee for them to make it worth your while or trade you in product and pay shipping to boot. No sense in throwing those parts away if you can make a buck off them. It may be too late for this season but in the future I appreciate you all keeping me in mind.
|
|
|
Post by trappnman on Apr 29, 2007 6:40:18 GMT -6
I don't think bulk is really the term- isn't it more of using different parts, to make different types of lures, as Bob J is suggesting?
|
|