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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Aug 4, 2006 13:33:25 GMT -6
I see the other got pulled will try this again and just present the reasons as to East versus west coyote trapping.
1. In the west many states have 48-72 hr check laws, allowing one to cover more ground. 2. Having to legally check your traps once every 2nd or third day allows more activity as the coyotes will shy from alot of human activity and be on alert after a few catches and running through each day.3. You can run more traps in more directions with longer trap checks.4. You do not have near the urban sprawl and can lock up ground much more efficiently when people own 5,000-60,000 acres of ground.5. Most western states have ADC programs which lead to having less dense coyote populations, go fall coyote trapping around sheep outfits and let me know your results? So less density means the need to spread out more and not trying 3 ways to trap the same group of coyotes and have your traps spread out more on more family groups, means more coyotes caught in a quicker time frame. 6. I don't know of many in states with ADC programs unless your in Southern Texas where coyotes range 3-4.2 per sq mile, in areas. that a fur trapper out west is doing 600+ coyotes a fall/winter? Mange/parvo with drought conditions has been very hard in many areas out west and the coyote numbers are surely down in many locations compared to 10-15 years ago.
In the East you have smaller land tracts can't cover the ground like a western coyote trapper can, but I'm willing to bet due to rains, alot of edge that your coyote density's are much greater than a large majority of areas out west that 1. No ADC program, little in sheep production compared to the west. 2. They don't receive the year round pressure of western coyotes. 3. Are used to human activity. 4. Much more diverse and abundant food base.5. Urban sprawl will concentrate coyotes better. Just as major drainages or Indian reservations will do as well. 6.
Coyotes that are less wary of human interaction are coyotes I would love to pursue.
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Post by bobwendt on Aug 4, 2006 14:03:14 GMT -6
you always have a free room here if you take a notion. they are all just dumber than red foxes back here. hehe. and so thick they are like charlie the tuna, saying "take me , take me!" actually there are only two situations where I`ve seen low coyote densitys in the west, #1 disease problems, namely mange, and #2 sheep areas with good control personel. not much of the west is sheep country anymore, but dang near the whole plains from canada to mexico are manged out pretty bad.
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Aug 4, 2006 15:20:56 GMT -6
No saying dumb as a dumb coyote is surely a dead coyote, just not as human skitish due to less year round persicution. The number of coyotes I see out within 200 yrds of a gravel road in this country compaired to years prior or in areas of Iowa are as off as they can be. They know, road dust, tire noise and a pickup are a sure sign of stress to them, doesn't matter if January or July. The amount of coyotes I get a chance at from even a two track are less than 6 a year at best. Thats out darn near every day 5+ days a week year round. Calling,ranchers and prairie dog hunters have them worked up 12 months out of a year.
Sometime I may have to come east and give them a try just to see the differances between the two. Mange is going on 8+ years and bad news in many parts of my area, alot I think comes from the Res and the coyote factory they have going on over there. The closer I work to the Res the mange % just goes way,way up. Some areas are 70%+ makes it hard with 3.00 a gal gas and equipment cost to get many "gung ho" fur trapping activity in these areas to throw 7 out of 10 away. A hard winter and those numbers on the Res will crash like plate glass.
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Post by bobwendt on Aug 4, 2006 16:21:07 GMT -6
sounds like western ks. but don`t count on cold to kill them off. those purple baldys in ks have had it for a long long time now and I`ve been there at 18 below in april and the next day just as many bluejean coyotes ( or as few I should say) as the day before. fox mange they wipe out, coyotes you are just stuck with low populations almost indefinitly from what I can see. I`m sure mange cycles, but going on 9 yerars in ks there has been no end to the cycle yet. every year just the same o same o.
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Post by trappnman on Aug 4, 2006 16:33:10 GMT -6
1) I am convinced, from talking to trappers that have longer checks, that a 48 hour check would give anyone more coyotes. I look forward to running on a 48 hour check in WY
2) Mange- It continues to baffle me as to WHY some areas get mange and why others do not.
Could it be relative isolation of populations?
I think cold must be a factor, yet it seems as like it is not. The UP for example, has 25-30% mange.
I've just been lucky here perhaps. In all the coyotes I've caught, I've had one with throw away mange, and maybe a handful of others with a bare spot or 2 on the tail. And that was many years ago.
Constant population harvest? Our collaring study showed our collared coyotes made it only an average of 2 years.
Any thoughts?
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Post by markymark on Aug 4, 2006 17:23:39 GMT -6
Any thoughts?
Just give it a little time, it will swing by. That you can bet the bank on.
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Post by psb1011 on Aug 4, 2006 17:40:05 GMT -6
Batteries ran out?
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Aug 4, 2006 18:07:45 GMT -6
My theory's go to this, I feel the reservations and those coyotes come off of there in higher concentrations and move up and down drainages and pass the mange onto others. Your coyotes turn over: if that quick would really help as it couldn't get a foothold over a large area.
We have alot of harvest as well, yet still see mange. Areas that are off limits are areas with higher density's, but once they are thinned out of good habitat, then you get fill in some times in a matter of just a few weeks from the res population. The coyotes pass it on to the pups and the cycle keeps going, I would like to see a harsh back to back winter and see if that doesn't really put a bang on the mange. Our winters have some mortality, but give us 3-4 weeks of single digit highs and 18" of snow on the ground and I think alot of them would be gone.
Areas where I can do control over a larger range and further from the res the less mange I see. I see more of the prey base there for less coyotes overall and much slower fill in.I also think as do some studies that high pup years coupled with a crash in food results in poor nutrition making the spread of mange much quicker as well. Malnourished leads to a better chance of infections and mange and advancement in these conditions. With drought and lower rabbit numbers for years could also be a factor in areas. Now the rabbits are back and I'm sure bigger litters, yet the rabbits cycle and will crash starting the cycle all over again.
Alot of areas have constant food sources and little major weather changes year to year, I see these as areas with less mange than areas with extreme weather conditions, resulting in lower prey base. The jackrabbits run from sage bush to sage bush as that is it for cover and I know the eagles and hawks have been having a hay day with them this year and our severe drought conditions. Cover is at a premium for any wild critter this year and water is as well. If we have a hard winter this year, I think alot of wildlife will take a big hit. They just can't go into this winter in the best of shape at all with the conditions we have had this year and the previous 5 or so years.
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Post by JWarren on Aug 4, 2006 18:08:09 GMT -6
1) I am convinced, from talking to trappers that have longer checks, that a 48 hour check would give anyone more coyotes. I look forward to running on a 48 hour check in WY You can go 72hrs if you want. Might want to bring more traps.
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Post by mostinterestingmanintheworld on Aug 4, 2006 19:37:45 GMT -6
I've never seen mange. Truth.
Joel
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Post by thorsmightyhammer on Aug 4, 2006 23:06:52 GMT -6
I can definately tell you that cold is not a detrimental factor in mange.
Its as cold up here as most anywhere in north america and our fox population has been decimated since about 95 + or - a year. Mange is the main factor for the continuing low numbers i believe. I dont think its because of coyotes.
I've seen bald yotes in February after a brutal January dug into bale piles, living in calf sheds, wherever. They are one tough hombre.
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Aug 5, 2006 4:07:42 GMT -6
steven cold does kill them off, may take time but in the end a big portion so stressed and under nourished go out a slow death. We have the same things happen here and then the rancher will move hay stacks or get in deeper into the stacks and many dead black baldys are found.
The plains of the west in winter can be very brutle,add 30mph winds and a good snow covering and ma nature is not kind.
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Post by MickMcLaughlin on Aug 6, 2006 18:18:32 GMT -6
Do the extended checks really help that much?
That may be a stupid remark, but it seems like when that trap has a 'yote in it , it can't catch another yote.
In other words, if I have a hot spot, I always keep a fresh set in and often will catch a 'yote almost every check.
I guess because i have always dealt with 24 hour checks, I can't imagine anything else.
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Post by trappnman on Aug 6, 2006 18:31:05 GMT -6
From talking to those that have a longer check, and observing cooytes at home- coyotes seen at set locations but run off by me-
I just think that there is no better lure for a coyote than another coyote.
Plus, the advantage of not having to check and go through the area every 24 hours.
Biggest advantage- the option of running 2-3 separate lines- thus potentially doubling or tribling your catch numbers with the same number of miles and hours trapped.
most places that have extended checks, also have few incidentals- so the traps aren't as plugged as you or mine are.....trappnman
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Post by Freak( Jim V.) on Aug 6, 2006 20:03:41 GMT -6
Bottom line , unless you have trapped both eastern coyotes and westerns , you have no experience to draw upon , only thoughtful philosophies. There are differences , but the terrain merits the major differences , not the actions of the animals.
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Post by MickMcLaughlin on Aug 6, 2006 20:09:42 GMT -6
I would say you are right, Steve if the numbers bear it out. I just don't know if I would take advantage of that option, if it were available to me.
I would say the biggest diffrence in the east is rain, but I am guessing that is obvious.
I lived in Alabama for one year back in the 80's and coyotes were fairly new, although they were more common than the average Joe believed. The constant rain and small plots of land are the biggest night mare for me.
I wish we had those grey fox up here. A cool animal.
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Post by melutter on Aug 8, 2006 7:48:41 GMT -6
I have trapped coyotes both East and West. And I have found that a coyote is a coyote. The ones in Mich were not as jumpy as SD. But there was not as many people after them. But I ran a 72 Hr check back there also. Mel
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Post by Nightwish (Catpaw) on Aug 8, 2006 10:03:18 GMT -6
Bottom line , unless you have trapped both eastern coyotes and westerns , you have no experience to draw upon , only thoughtful philosophies. There are differences , but the terrain merits the major differences , not the actions of the animals. I disagree. Due to the suppressed Wolf gene, the Eastern is much more leary of things such as human scent, ground disturbance and questionable sounds. That's why the Eastern is harder to call in with a Pred call, than a Western. I've done both. Also, with the size difference, the actions are subject to change as well. Bigger trap sizes, anchoring and even set construction can be issues to deal with and consider. Human encroachement also plays a role in the Easterns skittishness. Bottom line, find a guy who can catch 50+ Easterns and he'll be able to catch triple that in the West....with ease.
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Post by shagnasty on Aug 8, 2006 10:46:09 GMT -6
catpaw, your last statement has been talked about on here quite a few times. i doubt you will get too many arguments on that statement.
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mean1
Demoman...
Posts: 173
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Post by mean1 on Aug 8, 2006 12:18:37 GMT -6
During deer season last year i watched a deer drive from a ridge top with bino's, they chased out a large coyote and it got thru the shooters dodging bullets. I watched this coyote run like a rocket on the ground for about 400yds to withing 20 yds of a major road. This coyote stopped dead dropped in an open field and layed down, he turned his head and looked both directions and waited for the semi to go by and then jumped up and ran across the road and was out of there. Not only are the coyotes in the east i think bigger and most of us have to use smaller traps to catch them, but we have coyotes that are better at crossing roads than some humans ;D ha ha. I trap coyotes year around for animal damage control work and we have no season on them, i think the more we catch the more they come again. Either way they are a challenge to trap them and i am always up for it, East or West. Like O'G says, do it right the first time mean1
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