Lure burn out question

[musher]

As I understand it, some trappers think a lure can lose it's effectiveness because the target animal has smelled it and no longer responds to the stimulus. Other trappers think this is nonsense because most animal are young of the year and all smells are "new." There is also the fact that a good trapper catches the animal that came to smell the lure so it isn't getting used to anything except being on a stretcher.

Question: Once the trap is pulled some odour remains. I routinely see fox dig craters in the snow to work an old dirthole. If they came across the same scent often enough do you think they would stop digging because the smell would no longer interest them?

[Stef]

I don't think so musher.
Let say a fox or coyote dug in march a hole baited or lured in November.
7-8 months later you reset your traps again... most of the time you will make also a new dirt hole etc...
They should react as good as the first time they smelled it.

Like trappnman said in another thread... he even caught collared animals and recaught them with the same lures, sets etc....
You know.... they are smart but not as smart as we think.

my 2¢<br>
Stef

[trappnman]

when taking dogs hunting- if they find something that they want to roll in...EVERY time you bring them past that spot in furture times, they want to roll on it.

My honest opinion is that there are some odors that just "trip triggers" and that these triggers continue to trip whenever a coyote is exposed to them.

[vttrapper]

" they are not as smart as we think". I'd agree with Stef, however, I also think it the smell lingers at the set summer long it may not be as effective on the animals you missed last year. Young of the year, might not matter, but if they have smelled the scent, dug the hole, found nothing but a faint lingering oder many times, I think they very well might walk right on past that scent in the fall/winter. Like another siad, why do lure makers market so many differnt sets? Yes, to sell more but also the term changeup comes to mind. We have seen that many times and while it is normally used when one is on the trap line, I think it can be applyed on a yearly basis.

If you are on new, untrapped ground, it probabaly does not matter, on you old line it might. I have talked to many trappers who say a new lure they tryed was excellent the first year then not so good the second. These are good trappers who take many animals both east and west. I have found this to be true as well, when talking coyotes.

frank

[bobwendt]

I think the key in this alleged "burn out" phenominon is the animals that escape, i.e. get dirt blown in their face, nip a toenail etc. You smack a dog in the nose enough times with a rubber band and he doesn`t like rubber bands. But I bet if you drew one hand back with say a kite string right in front of his nose he would run too after seeing you make the same motion with the rubberband repeatedly. So what came first , the chicken or the egg? I contend it was the misses that shyed him from not only the "old" lure, but also the fresh dirt and that little hole. So if you insist on changing lures, then change your set configuration also if you want maximum benefit fron that new lure. Or better yet, just don`t muck it up the first time around. Foxes you can muck up a ton and still ding them, coyotes you get 1 shot, maybe 2 three at the most and he just won`t dink with you anymore, new lure or not. It`s like the old indian said, 1 shot, deer- 2 shots, maybe- 3 shots, no deer.

[musher]

Salut Stef: I had considered Steve's experience with collared 'yotes but I also considered the possibility that either those voyotes were either amazing stupid or that Steve was amazing good at trapping them!

T-man: Your dog rolling example really opened my eyes. They just can't help themselves. That thought coupled with what Bob wrote about having maybe 2 chances at them is making me do lots of thinking. I've booted more than one dog for rolling in stink and the boot is usually a waste of time. It's a reflex they have. A good lure makes an animal act on reflex (instinct?).

I think I might be having a break through moment regarding lures!

Frank: If this dog rolling analogy is accurate old lure could actually make a canid come back to the area every time. A dog really goes out of its way to roll or urinate at the same spot year after year.

Bob: Everyone knows the egg came before the chicken. After all, it is breakfast before lunch. ;D

Thanks for the input.

[trappnman]

I once said "I want a lure that will make that coyote WANT to dig, to slobber, to do anything to get to that lure"

I was called "a rank amateur that hopes a coyote steps on his pan with all that walking around"

Well, I dispute the "rank" but yes, thats exactly what I want.

I believe that there are many very good lures out there on the market. Many I have tried, many I have not.

Based on those trials- I concluded that while all might take coyotes- some lures made the coyotes do different things.

I hate to bring it up- but Logan has an excellent study on the various canine lure ingriedients- and how a coyote reacts to each.

www.aphis.usda.gov/ws/nwrc/is/00pubs/00-33.PDF

and
www.aphis.usda.gov/ws/nwrc/is/00pubs/00-34.pdf


frank- consider this- while a coyote certainly could get used to odors- wouldn't a fresh hole, fresh lure in a larger amount reattract even though he has been smelling a faint, worn out set all summer?

[bobwendt]

I`m getting logan burnout.

[vttrapper]

Tnman,

yes, could be, but we are both talking could beeesss.

It is also possible that the same situation could be ignored by the coyote due to him beeing used to the smell. Since it is stronger it does not make it better in this instance.

Thank you for posting the study.

Musher,

I agree tht dogs do go out of their way to roll, pee, crap and probabally just hunt because they caught something there before. But if he goes and smells the same smell which he has found nothing at, it is possible he may ignor the smell since he might remember there was nothing there the many times he investigated before.

I think that with urine posts or natural urination spots they will continue to make there way and pee, only because they are marking their area. The same could be said for straight gland secents where they are starting to pee or just investigate because it smells like another coyote but i think not as often as straight pee.

Lures that are meat based, have 1 or more extra ingrediants that give off a scent other than pee or gland could get a differnet responce after repeated exposure.

frank

[trappincoyotes39]

frank- consider this- while a coyote certainly could get used to odors- wouldn't a fresh hole, fresh lure in a larger amount reattract even though he has been smelling a faint, worn out set all summer?

Tman, it would depend on did that coyote, smell that same lure, see that same size and shape hole, with that same pattern a time or two in his life that created a negative to he/she?
Bob hit on it change lures and set type to get maximum benefit from a wised up coyote. I personally think a coyote is much easier to take after he's been pinched or pulled out, in heavy pressure area with something natural and natural to the surroundings.
I still contend a coyote approches everything in it's life as either a negative experiance, neutral to investigate to find out more, or a past positive.

[redfoxtrapper2000]

I cant get those links to work.I would love to read this study alls I gets is little red box thing any advice?

[trappnman]

It has to be something to do with your computer settings. try going to Trapping Links board and going direct- the mentioned studies are in 1999 and 2000

when you get to site- click "publications"

[redfoxtrapper2000]

Thanks

[mt]

I maybe wrong but I think that if the coyote dug the set after the trap was removed, no harm was done. He did not get pinched, a face full of dirt, nothing. By that maybe he thinks what ever was there, the next time he smells it , it may be there this time and go in and get caught. I have noticed some of my sets from December and January were dug up, and dug up good. I am hoping next year they remember that smell and step right in.

Mark