human scent -cleanness AND K-9,S

[NEPISIGUIT]

This topic may have been covered before but i would like to hear some comments on how important or not it is when trapping k-9,s. Have heard so many opinions over the years on this topic that i am not sure now what is important and what is not and to what degree. There are people on this site with a lot more experience than i. on these topics.I am curious to see if there is a general concensus. Trapping is one topic but starting out on the right foot before any setting i believe should be #1. Am I correct?

[trappnman]

You can't go wrong being extra careful (clean)- but its really 2 issues.

1) trap and equipment...I do think clean traps (dye/wax) does play a big role.

2) human cleanliness....let me tell you 2 examples....

the first was in the collaring..I often had 2-3 other people on my line- 2 trucks at times (sigh)...it often took 20 minutes or more to finish screwing around....and I saw no difference in remake catches....

second- a few years ago, I kept track of next night catches after a fresh set...I saw no difference in success in traps set at 8 in the morning or traps set at dark.

In my country, at least---human scent is not much of a factor. You are never going to convince a coyote you were not there- but he KNOWS you were not there now...

IMHO- if there is a silver bullet...its visuals...

[woody]

Lets see:

Human scent: whats the difference if I am out there milling around in that field or if the farmer is there? I don't purposely do things to let the critter know I was there but if I got to go I go when I am in an area that the farmer would use I think K-9's are more used to humans then we give them credit for If they were realy scared of us them they wouldn't be standing in the barn yard when you come home at night

Human scent, I think it was Matty Jones that said it was only a 24 hour problem. I set traps with my bare hands and I dont think it hurts any, the fox and yotes are going to know I was there anyways. I just don't like to leave alot of scent in the area. get in and get'er done and get out.

Cleanness, I think you need clean waxed traps and well taken care of equipment, i.e. traps, trowel, sifter, and anything else you use.

I feel the most important part of trapping K-9's is to get in, put in the set and get out in a few minutes and then check the sets from at least 100 yards with binocs, and only go in to the set once a week or evry other week to relure, I have taken critters on set that have sit all season and have only been lured once, but that's me. I know someone will say I am wrong and so be it I know what works for me woody

[Bubber]

I don't belive it is that they are afriad of human scent. It is the fact that there is human scent around somthing that is already unnatural. They associate human smell with danger. If you walk through an area as opposed to stopping and staying in one place long enough to set a trap, they can tell. If you are in an area of high human ativity it probably makes less difference than if you were out in the high desert where the only time humans are present is deer season.

Odors on your traps and equipment is very important to control in my opinion.

If you brush up against a tree or bush with your coat, kneel on the ground, or hit yourself with a hammer and air out your lungs, you will leave human scent. This will dissapate faster than oder on your on your equipment. On the other hand if you spend to much time at the set itself I have noticed it will stay inactive longer than one that slipped in fast.

Two years ago I put two coyote sets in that were just about 10 yds apart. The second set i cauht both thumbs in the trap and used some language that made junipers wilt. It took me much more effort to get that second set in. The first set took three animals in the same trap. The second set never took an animal. Even though several animals came in pairs and investigated none would go right in. I belive it was because of the scent I left there.

[coyote]

personally, I want (NEED) every advantage I can legally get to catch canines. so...I get and stay as clean as I can.

[bobwendt]

I try to stay clean, but am not very good at it. I smoke, carry gear barehanded bla bla. But am fast in and out and don`t dink around forever packing dirt etc, I never intentionally let bait/lure/skunk spray on my gear and a lot of other things I think more important than ultra cleanliness as far as human scent. My salt boxes go right off the grocery shelves into my pack basket, I always apply urine/bait/lure barehanded yet wear gloves setting/sifting/pounding/digging. It works for me .

[reabhnt]

Thru the years have found what I thought was a scent
problem was more not having the trap bedded good.

[bblwi2]

Maybe this should have been another thread. If so I apologize to the orginator of this one; but here goes.

I have limited experience with canines, several years worth but with small lines and small catches. I have read 100s of post dealing with the human scent issue. Too me I find these posts fascinating and very informative. I have learned much.
My question is this.
I do believe that the coyote,fox knows we were there. For those of you with much more experience. If the yote knows I was there and this creates caution, fear, refusal etc. Why is all the discussion centered around the foothold trapping and dirt etc? Wouldn't the same scent be there with snares and cable restraints and why are there not gereat debates over scent, cleanliness with snares and only with the buried traps?
As Linda Richmond would saty " I give you yet one more topic to discuss" "Talk amoungst yourselves"

Bryce

[NevadaTrapper]

Well, in my opinion, cleanliness does count to some extent, but not as much as some make it out to be. They make it seem like a canine is some kind of super smart animal with wierd trap-sensing powers, and they think you have to be superman to catch one.
As for human scent, it varies by location. Where I live, everything is farmed or ranched and human scent is everywhere. If human scent were as important as some people say it does, there would not be a single coyote within 100 miles of my line.
Then again, if you were way out in the wilderness where there is nobody around for a long ways, human scent would be a huge factor, because the only humans that ever go around there are probably hunters and they probably shoot at the coyoteds every chance they get.

Just my 2 cents.

[bobwendt]

because human scent is not a great issue with traps, as it is not with snares. rural canines smell humans/oil/chemicals almost every step they make. Wilderness canines don`t care as they never smelled it before. My gosh, up in the winds of wyoming, true wilderness area ,I often can walk to with-in a few feet of grown adult canines and once caught one by hand, have the pictures and witnesses to prove it. Ditto on deer , elk, antelope etc. The great white hunters from california et.al. bust my gut laughing as they shoot animals not smart enough to even run away. As was said to me by 1080 while he was visiting in ks., "this trapping is not brain surgery" then something to the effect of having critters, having decent gear, knowing critters and lastly working your hiney off. scent left behind (with-in reason and circumstance) was not even mentioned.

[coydog]

I wear gloves, and treat my traps.
Gloves are to protect my hands.
Treatment is to protect the traps.
As far as my odor, they are just going to have to deal with it cause their isnt much I can do about it.

OGorman told me a story, cant remember if it was about Vern Dorn, or Bill Nelson, anyway, one of them was smokin a cigarette while trappin and Og asked "do you think that smoke bothers them coyotes"
response was " oh hell, them coyotes know I smoke!"
I thought that was pretty good ;D

[coydog]

I should point out, I am not saying Im a slob trapper, I dont spend any more time than I have to at a set.
Most coyotes in my area , deal with human odors most of the year, so unless they have been given a reason to take heed, human odor is not an issue.

[Maineman]

To be honest, I try to keep things clean (Traps, dirt, me, etc) but I've caught fox withsweat running down my face and hands soaking wet...

Safest bet is and always will be to keep things clean...

Dave Z

[trappincoyotes39]

The only thing to worry about are your traps/snares as long as there clean the rest don't much matter,as stated they knwo you been there, time and wind are the only things going to change that.
The odors aloft to some coyotes don't represent that much in the way of caution in some areas, but that same odor comming from the ground is where you have troubles, be it human or contamination. You can cover it with a heavier dirt covering, urine, and I like to add sage to my trap tubs.

[NEPISIGUIT]

GOOD RESPONSES.I posted this topic because of problems or perceived problems i had this season. I did things this year that i dont normally do, mainly because i rushed things in preparation for trapping. 1. I think i let my wax get too hot. took too long to wax a few traps. 2 rushed to treat snares with baking soda with no airing out time before being set. 3. fleshed coons in my garage at night then in morning prior to heading out to the field i would tramp over this same area with my boots to pick up equipment.Here are my results with 20 traps set over three farms: 1 coyote on one farm and one fox on each of the other two farms. This does not seem right especially because i know there were more animals around. I also spent quite a bit of time milling around the sets because i approached them without all the equipment i needed. I may be wrong but i feel these lack of care contributed to my poor season.

[Hornhunter]

I often wonder how much we could control our own scent? I love "garlic" We'll have a feed at work and i'll poor garlic on everythig. Take a shower before coming home in the morning. Crawl in bed with the wife and she's out the other side yelling how I reak of the stuff.
I'm not suggesting we drink a pint of fox urin the night before the coyote season, but maybe cleaner cloathing and less spicy foods?
Anybody want to eat charcoal?

[mac]

I spent many years, and I mean many, concerned about finding the best way to leave the least amount of odor. I was brought up in the Eastern fox way of thinking. As time wore on I found out what was necessary and what was myth.

About three years ago I had several conversations with Mr. Scott Huber via email. I listened intently to a guy that some interesting thoughts. Even an old dog can adapt so I adopted his way of thinking.

I do not go out of my way to change my oil next to a set or take whiz next to a set but my attitude has relaxed considerably. I want my traps clean, and my equipment clean. I attempt to work as fast as possible while still constructing a good set. After much field experience and listening to Scott I decided there is no way in heck to fool the coyote's or fox's nose. As the the guy above said wind. time etc. will take care of the scent issue.

Another factor that really got me to thinking is a friend. He consistently takes big catches of canines and does not suscribe to any of the hocus pocus that I used to.

Mac

[NEPISIGUIT]

THANKS MAC. I,M one of those old dogs and should know better. BUT never to old to learn. we will see next year.

[Wiley]

Pretty much agree with most of what has been stated.

Consider this:

1. Drug dogs find cocaine in cargo loads of fish.
2. Bird dogs point pheasants with a pheasant in their mouth.
3. Bird dogs point birds after taking a straight shot of skunk in the face.
4. Bloodhounds track individual people through cities.
5. Most coon hounds know which way a coon is heading shortly after starting the track.

No speculation, all observation!


The issue is not the amount of scent you leave. You are going to leave scent by your mere presence at the set. The issue is the freshness of the scent.

Human odor simply has to disapate to a tolerable level and each coyotes level of tolerance is different.

Best thing you can do is stay back from your sets after you make them until you need to reset the trap.


It's a shame that so many trappers have been misled about something they can't do anything about.

As T'man pointed out, clean traps is very important. Want a wreck? Just let lure and bait odors permeate your wax and watch the digging start.

I'm not worried about touching those traps but I do keep them away from bait and lure odors as much as possible.

Worry about the things you can do something about.



~SH~

[NEPISIGUIT]

NEVER EXPECTED ALL THE COMMENTS RECEIVED. WISH ALL TRAPPERS COULD READ THEM. one comment really stickes out and that is its a shame that so many trappers waste time worrying about things they cant do anything about and maybe not enough on things that they can do correctly. ITS ALL A LEARNING EXPERIENCE AND SOMETIMES ITS A LONG HARD ROAD TO HOE. Thanks again for the great comments Charlie.