Line Management-Canine rotation??

[bblwi2]

I will still be working full time during the 2005-06 trapping season. One of my goals for the coming season is to prospect, set, run and manage a November and December caninine line while I am running my November coon and rat water line.
Canine line will be the following.
All canine traps (37) are 1.75 Victors, laminated, center swivelled, short chain, with dble stake ends and 24 have PIT shock springs, 12 have a low budget type and 1 has none.
Those are the traps I will be using.

I have 57 different farms that are in 12 different townships that I can set for canines.
Due to the fact that I will be working yet full time my plan is to run these farms in 6 different loops with 3-dozen sets per loop for 1 week each, 3 from Nov 1 to Nov 19th and 3 from Dec 1 to dec 22.
I would be setting out on Saturdays and pulling and resetting the next Sat-Sunday. The reason for this is the loop would be about 25-40 miles max for each and probably about 1-2 hours to run while doing other lines.
After retiring I would manage that line differently.
My questions are these for those with monre experience and history are
1. Is this a very inefficient way to run a canine line?
2. I will need to pull up and re set all traps, clean ones will stay clean, but contaminated traps will be reset and I plan to set them with contaminated materials. what are your experienceswith this or thoughts.
3. I was thinking of setting only the more funneling areas where I see sign, is this a marginal method based on the 5-7 days on location and the higher non-target potential?
4. If this were you would you run this in say 2 loops in November and then again in December over the similar area.
I plan to pull for the 9 day gun season and maybe 4 more if we need to reduce the herd more in early December.
The area I trap is small, rolling fields, broken up by dairy farms, small villages, rural residents and small woodlots and sloughs and streams. Fox and coyote sign is common and we have a strong coon, grinner and skunk population with lots of domestic cats and several wide ranging domestic dogs.

Any thoughts that will help me manage this better or revamp considerably will be appreciated.

Bryce

[blakcoyote]

Time is the biggest problem,I'm guessing your other line is water.I would set up the best spots like you mentioned.I use to run both types of lines at the same time,and being short on time one or the other suffered,if your setting up drowning sets on the water line,and with the check laws,it will give a little more time to pay attention to the canines.I live on the cut off line for north and south zones and trap mainly canines,and it works out for me.I trap the north side until the south side opens 2 weeks later.When I first set up I'll hit the prime spots first(from previous seasons)then fill in as time goes on,and pulling sets that arent producing and moving around.I'll use traps that made catches over and over if there still in fair shape,I dont have time to reboil,so I'll wash them off with a hose and throw them in my dye solution I used earlier for preping my equipment,I just dont heat it up,after a day sitting in the dye they seem to work fine,and smell like the dye,skunked ones,and ones wore clean of wax and dye, get pulled out of the arsenal and cleaned.By the time the south opens I start it all over again,and pull sets from the north loop gradually,until I'm set up on the south loop.I work nites so I'm able to concentrate without too much time constraints.But if I was on days it would be a little more rushed.I guess it all depends on your situation and time.Each trapper adjusts his line to what his needs or responsibillities are.And I think your plan will work,and you'll find some tweaking that'll need to be done as it materializes.But it should work.After deer season,if the weather cooperates,hit it again,but by the time the T-zones are done,we usually have alot of snow to deal with,and every critter has it's belly full with gut piles.So I'll go to calling and underice beaver and otter.I hope this helps.

[briankroberts]

Sounds to me like you have planned this out very well ( better than I plan most of mine).
The only thing that would scare me is using the contaminated traps at new sets, I would advise against this, besides that it sounds to me like you have your ducks in a row.
.....B.....

[Zagman]

Couple things, as I have to plan my line in a similar fashion....I have a little experience in these short lines.

If possible, pick your locations at all farms ahead of time, even pre-digging sets ahead of time.

When you plan in the manner that you are and have only one day to pull and set the new spots, you will hit the ground running by knowing EXACTLY where you will be setting on Farmer Brown's property......pull in, jump out of the truck, bang the sets in, and down the road. No looking around for general OR specific locations.....

Second, by only trapping for a week, you will be missing some coyotes, even by setting on sign. With this in mind (and I struggle with this yearly) I have found that it is better for me to set two sets per spot and get down the road to the next one vs. gang setting heavily on one farm....

I am fall pup trapping and trying to take the cream and fly, and I find that by getting spread out and on new family groups, I am better off. While I catch a number of doubles each year, single coyote catches are far more common......so I spread it out.

Certainly, depending on sign, dont pass up opportunities to set heavily if it is warranted.....

Use dirty traps at dirty sets only.......like Brian said.

Limit the number of lures and baits you use.....get a couple goods one, and if necessary, go with pints.

Some day, and I get closer every year, I will have a jug of pee, a jug of bait, and a jug of gland lure, and lure every set or pair of sets the same......just not there yet.

Steamline and fly......

This will work for you since you are planning so far ahead of time, and while it certainly will not go as planned, you will be ahead of the game when the game starts.....

To know NOW what farms you will be on EXACTLY on November 11th will keep you organinized and allow you to plan the intricate details of line management.....

If possible, get some more traps.....cleaning the used ones will be difficult and take away from trapping and skinning.....sell something, if you have to, to buy more.

Zagman

[trappnman]

I often think of this aspect of line management.

in many ways, its 6 of one, half a doz of the other...

I personally think a week is too short in farm country- but thats a matter of opinion for sure. I probably tend to run traps longer than I should, but I know I pick up extra coyotes because I do. The problem with a strict 1 week schedule is that you are at the mercy of things you cannot control- weather, farmers.

What happens if a core area of farms isn't ready in that week- change everything.

I stronglt advise against reusing the contaminated traps. At least wash them down good and rewax. The rust, use will surely hurt your results.

[Maineman]

bblwi2, Just the fact that you are thinking about line management will put you ahead of the game...I agree with Zags when he states pick your locations ahead of time...I'm not a ig fan of pre-digging but I sure don't want to be looking for locations on the same day that I'm setting traps...

Steve makes a good point about some farms not being "READY" at that particular time of year... If we're talking about crops (harvested or not) I agree that the change in crop conditions can play a role in locations and land usage...In these cases when crops are still up (especially corn), I look for choke points like travelways like farm roads or cut-throughs on a hedgerow rather than setting the field edges and corners...

If we're refering to "Time of year" and the effect it has on dispersal, run-offs and mating season, there's not a lot you can do to change that...

Good topic...

Dave Z

[coyote]

if I'm not mistaken, I believe he planned on using contaminated bedding materials in the new areas...kinda like an artificial catch circle...

contaminated trap bedded in contaminated artificial catch circle sounds okay to me.

[17HMR]

I like to have a plan and plan and think about it all summer and by the end of the first month each year Im so off schuedle that it looks as if I didnt have a plan at all there is just to many suprises with work, weather, and family to keep to my plan. However your plan sounds like it will maximize your catch, but as said before you may need more traps. Jeff

[bblwi]

Thank you to all that have added input and good advice and thought to my questions.
Time is the biggy.
I do plan to set 1-2 traps at each location.
Yes the crops and when off could cause one some real issues. I have some travel lanes picked out that could keep the lagging harvest issue to a lower burn.
Mud and rain will be the biggest problems in November, they were this year.

Good points Zag on the purchase of more traps so that I can redue traps. I am wanting to trap more canines this fall with the traps I have to better analyze what type of traps to buy when I want to expand in the future. I have been debating and thinking of the soft catch1.5s and 3 as permission getters for my farm country area. I plan to use the 1.75 Victors more with drags and 5 foot of heavy chain in the northwoods on my logging road line in the future.
Yes I was planning to scratch up the dirt from the catch area and reset the trap in a new location as a dirty trap with dirty dirt if you will. I thought this may be an attraction and allow me to move through my loops with more traps and faster.
I may coordinate my canine loops more with my dryland coon trapping also. Most areas have good locations for all species.
I was thinking of really keeping good records and watch the weather closely, there may be loops that can be reset later due to poor weather and other issues.
I have 15 spots that I have just picked as to me are dispersal route locations. I will see how poor my scouting and hunches will be. If I am correct I many re-route loops to have traps in those areas for 12 days or more. I did a better job of scouting for adult male coon trails this year and I was right more than not, so we will see with the canines.

One other question. If you were speed trapping areas like the above scenario and made a catch and the line was only going to be out for 6 days would you always put down a clean set at the location?

Thanks

Bryce
I realize that 6 days is really a minimum but really want to set all these areas before I retire and get a better feel for running a longer line.

[trappnman]

Bryce- now think about this-

the time needed to powerwash 20 traps and wax tem...verus picking up and carrying catch circle dirt to a new location- and all the pain in the butt that implies....

PLUS we won't even bring up rusy traps- and they will be rusty... rain, coon, etc...

Why take a chance on an iffy proposition when with a maximum of 2 hours you would be SURE....

[Planes & Poison]

The good thing is you're thinking about this now. Hopefully by the time the season rolls around you'll have you're plan ironed out well enough you can just roll right through your canine line and make a good catch.

What will most likely make or break this proposition, as has been said, will be preseason work. Locate the very best locations possible during the summer, and get in your cable stakes. I even go as far as dumping a few gallons of coal shale in a pre-dug bed so when I get back there during the fur season all I have to do is add a hole and trap, and go. I don't like pre-digging my dirtholes because I rely too heavily on the attraction of a brand new, freshly dug hole. But that's another topic we don't need to get into here.

"If you were speed trapping areas like the above scenario and made a catch and the line was only going to be out for 6 days would you always put down a clean set at the location?"

In my opinion, no. If you were to be staying longer, keep a fresh set available. In this situation though, I'd put two sets at each stop (I can't bring myself to set only one) and just remake them after each catch for speed purposes. Hopefully your preseason scouting will put you on good enough locations that if some canine wants to be finnicky about a catch circle, there'll be another right after him that won't care and be there waiting for you in the morning.

Setting only the very best, high traffic locations is going to matter more on a short fast line that it will on a line that you plan to have in longer.

As far as dealing with traps having to be reused, odors, rust issues, etc. Don't worry about it. Just reset the traps, cover with regular dirt, top-coat the trap pattern with urine and make sure that you're dirt hole, attractor, whatever, has enough odor and sight attraction that your canine is focussing on getting that and not digging up your trap.

When running lines like this, focus on the bigger picture of maximizing the catch, and don't fret the little things.

[trappnman]

As far as dealing with traps having to be reused, odors, rust issues, etc. Don't worry about it. Just reset the traps, cover with regular dirt, top-coat the trap pattern with urine and make sure that you're dirt hole, attractor, whatever, has enough odor and sight attraction that your canine is focussing on getting that and not digging up your trap.


wish this was so in my area- but have had it proven to me over and over again- the trap does matter..

I wish it wasn't so- but it is- this year for the first time, kept rotaing clean traps as needed, and had considerble less digging and pattern advoidance in doing so.

[bblwi]

Really do appreciate the knowledge and info you are transferring to me.
Prospecting, will be done and has been for some time. I have under trapped these farms for canines now for about 5-7 years.
I am really glad to have posted this very early in my planning of this type of line structure. The lead time is mostly for me to re-think and totally revamp my trap handling methods.
For the last 7 years the traps have been dipped, and not waxed nor dyed. Could be part of the high percentage of reds versu yotes? Don't know.
The more I think of the dirty trap dirty dirt to the new site the more problems it seems as it will create. I personally feel the concept is sound. Scoop up the trap and a 5 quart bucket of the catch dirt and put the trap in a new spot. No donnut effect. However it appears that the whole system, clean and not will all be dirty and hardy to organize with that many rotations.
So that means lye, dye and wax and then redoing traps is not such a big deal. Time is money and the purchase of a couple dozen more traps may be very low cost over all. WHAT TRAPS to buy?? Soft catch, I do want to try, the new Duke with the thicker jaw. I prefer the smaller sizes.
My wife got one of these fancy stoves with the ceramic tops and now does not want to can tomatoes on the stove?? Wow spend money to go backwards, but that is another whole forum let alone a thread!
Well now I can buy a good gas burner and I can do traps tomatoes and other stuff.
One of my thoughts was to think about how to run the loops at about 50% larger size and put in a few new locations every day or evrey other day and not depend so much on the weekend to redo the whole thing. Too much risk as I think this out.
Redoing the traps will be more important with the November line. I did not get as many incidentals when going only in December.
Again thanks

Bryce

[coyote]

Bryce,

regarding the gas cooker...I bought mine at Cabela's (single burner, high BTU output).

it's AMAZING how much weight that burner and frame will withstand...

I boil in a small (15 gallon?) grease barrel. fill it full with traps, drags, chains, etc. fill it with water and dye...that little burner holds it ALL!

one of those things I wish I'd bought when I first started!

[trappnman]

Run and gun...I've thought of it..and should at least do it some...but it just doesn't seem to fit my style or methods.

Most years- I did this- set up my "core" area of farms- then set up what I call my eastern loop. I try to get the core set up in a week to 10 day- then the loop.

I like to have the loop set up and run for 2 weeks or so. I then pull that loop and set up my western loop. This loop is run 2-3 weeks.

My core area is setup the entire time- 5 to 6 weeks.

That works well...I set up in progression, always setting at the end of the day. Even when the areas are set up, I believe in Zags "new places, fresh faces" thought so try to add a few set ups on a daily or more accurately every 2-3 days.

This year- it was all different. I couldn't set in progression- I had to leap frog in setting a farm here, a farm there...expanding the line, but leaving holes to be filled in as they became available.

Didn't like doing that, but with the harvest had no choice.

I find pre choosing specific locations to be very hard on most of my farms- what I see in August, Sept is far different from what things will be like in season. I find, for me, that a drive through a week or so ahead of time is suffcient- I know whats picked, plowed, untouched, etc.

One other factor in carrying used dirt.....rain.

[Possum]

Good luck. All that thought would hurt my brain and if I thought it all out that detailed in advance, I'd be miffed if it didn't work out and the chance of me being on track after like 3 days would be slim, after a week, I'd have the whole plan wrapped up and in the burn barrel.

I run a similar sized line as you plan and have been trapping the same farms for the same amount of time as you. Weather, harvest, chisel plows, hunting seasons and success/failure all work together to make long range plans (more than about 3 days) fruitless.

A few points I hope help.
1) set as you go and once the line is established, pull some and add some each day depending on all the above.
2) When I pull a contaminated trap, all I do is boil it on a fish cooker for 10 min or so, dunk it into a bucket of F-1 dip and let it dry outdoors overnight. The next day I'll reset and I don't have any problems with "diggers."
3) You will get hotspots which will produce for more than a week. Last year's hotspot may be this year's dead zone. I've left sets for a month and pulled after a few days. Just depends on success and convenience--not on strict black and white planning.
4) Always more than one set. Opposites of the lane to compensate for wind changes, clean set next to a remake.
5) No more than 3 sets in one location--even if they are all remakes.
6) Depending on where I expect the coyotes to travel a pair of sets might be 20 feet apart or 200 yards.

[bblwi2]

Thanks to all of you for your time and input in offering advice on my canine line. I have thought about this for 2-3 years now and that is the problem. I have been thinking and not doing. I need to just get out there and get it done and then measure what happens. Your information has helped me lay out a game plan that is more realistic and has a better chance of working for me. I now have 7 months to get my ---- in order and get it done. Line management and making appropriate choices as to how to setup and then work through the line have always been issues I need to learn more about.

Thanks again,

Bryce