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Post by trappnman on Jan 21, 2005 12:04:25 GMT -6
While on the subject of traps- every trap out there has a plus side and a minus side. I envy those who trap coyotes in areas where there are basically just coyotes (and cats too, lucky dogs!). In those circumstances- you can use a coyote specific trap with no worries about incidentals be it furbearer or domestics.
But I like many don't have that luxury. I have a lot of incidentals- fox, coon, skunk, possum, dogs and housecats.
Its easy to be impractical and say the dogs and cats shouldn't be there...yadda, yadda...but the practical fact is they are and they are a concern. Plus with the daily catching of smaller domestics giving me another set of concerns- its hard to pick the best all around compromise trap. One that does the job on coyotes but is acceptable on incidentals.
Bigger traps are just not fox traps- maybe that aluminum trap of Brockers- something featherlight- otherwse the trap weight is the problem.
As far as domestics and fox- problem solved with 1.75s-at the low range in traps capable of holding more yotes than they miss- the 1.75 is as good as they come.
But- and as Z will know I always have said- I do get misses and yes some losses with the smaller trap- thus searching for a more coyote specific trap.
So far- I do find much to like about the Montanas. For sure they are a coyote trap- easy setting, do the job...
I haven't caught a dog in one and I'm not sure I'd like to.
I sometimes wonder if a 4 coil reg jaw with laminations might not be, factoring in everything- the way to go.
Zags- you deal with domestics- and have gone 100% to #3. Whats your best setup- in regards to a "compormise" trap?
Comments?
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Post by Edge on Jan 21, 2005 12:26:01 GMT -6
When I trap coyotes,I use a coyote trap.If that catches non target fur,thats OK,but i am there for the coyotes.If that can be done with little to no damage,great.
By far the best compromise trap is (for me,in my area,where I apparently have three times the coyotes my competition does,annually)the Duke 1.75.
I use them 2 coiled,with and without lamination,never OS.They are easy to lam and rechain,parts are easy to get,and if I find a cant miss location for other than coyote,I dont have to bury the trap halfway to china.
I use em in the dirt first,then on to water...........I have taken all michigan-legal fur in them,with remarkably little damage.I have taken several large non game fur in them and they were released with ZERO damage;alluded to in the report filed.
If I had to make a living on one trap,it would be a 2-coiled,1/4"outside lammed Duke 1.75.
But I *dont*,so when I am afetr coyotes,I use a coyote trap.
Edge
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Post by Zagman on Jan 21, 2005 14:34:49 GMT -6
Yep, this was my first year at 100 #3's...
When I first started up here in NY in 1988, I was 75% 1.5 coils and 25% 1.75's....
That did not last long and went right to 100% 1.75's, mostly stock.
Got sick of jaw popping, so went to 100% tricked out 1.75's.....
Went about 6-7 years that way, did fine, beating my chest that you did not need big iron to catch coyotes...
In reality, I was using a fox trap for coyotes, since I am now mostly coyote trapping with a few incedental fox.
So, about 6 years ago, went to 100% tricked out #2 Bridgers, NW's, and #3' Monties (which is really about the size of a #2).....
Started phasing in #3's the next year, using them only for true winter trapping.
Last year, 2003, I was 50/50 #2's and #3's, but now was using true #3's in the Bridger, NW's, etc. Plus, some #4 Monties, Jakes, etc.
Really convinced MYSELF that I am better suited with a bigger trap, even if it's just in the confidence dept, and this year, went all out and tricked myself out with the bigger traps, not setting a single #2.
Quite an evolution here....any plans for a #5 coil coming out soon? LOL
BUT BUT BUT, if I needed a compromise trap for coyote, fox, coon, and incedentals, I would go with the #2 Bridger or NW's, tricked out AND offset....I just like offsets, run 100% offsets regardless of trap size, and I dont see the cutting that everyone else does....
If I wanted to make sure I had the best chance of holding all the coon, I would switch to a regular jaw....
That little number 2 is a workhorse, especially tricked out, and it is a nice middle of the road trap.....
Regarding the #3's, the double lamination (Canadian Jaw) Bridgers I have seem to have the best performance on damage, or the traps I have with the Coyote Cuff jaws in them......
Zagman
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Post by yota on Jan 21, 2005 14:39:40 GMT -6
I cant say enough good about this trap............Jerry Heimbrocks 550...........  Because the market has a void from the inability of getting them, Sterlings new 500 is near idenical and will be a welcomed piece of equipment. |
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Post by Steve Gappa on Jan 21, 2005 14:42:22 GMT -6
Zags- I found that coon loss in the #3 offsets was not a concern or a problem in any way. If anthing, I kept a few more coon in them.
Tell us about incidentals in those traps please.
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Jan 21, 2005 15:45:31 GMT -6
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Post by Zagman on Jan 21, 2005 15:50:48 GMT -6
One of the benefits of using offsets for me is the fact that I catch more cats annually than dogs....the offset is large enough that it grips the leg of the cat with no breakage/damage....
This year, I caught quite a few of both dogs and cats....
All dogs were dogs that were the landowner's or the land owner's neighbor's.....and I did not lose a single farm after catching these free-roamers.
Bob has said in the past that these dogs caught in these big traps (not Softcatches) will have pizza feet in a day or two, yet I have never seen this....not once.
The dogs may no longer LIKE me,or the smell of my truck, but they ARE walking on all fours......
Cats caught by one foot were all in great shape in the offsets,....the weight of the trap, I think, could cause some problems.
Did have two cats by TWO feet.....this is a different story......
Honestly, I dont seem to have the problems with damage on target or non-targets that others seem to....I know many use traps pretty much stock out of the box, whereas I have tons of swivels, shocksprings, laminations, and center-swiveled traps.....
Again, too many variables, but I feel I am putting my best foot forward with the tools I use, I can sleep at night, AND I can look the farmer in the eye the next day IF I catch their critters.....
Still, some target animals look worse than others, and this, again, I feel gets down to the individual animal......
Greys are in their own category....
Regarding coon, those caught by the back foot are usually still there......front feet caught are nearly out when I get there, or, when I lose one, I assume I lost him due to being caught by the front paw....
Buzzy....If I could get 300 Brockers to utilize, I would use them...in a second......no questions asked.
TC35: I will take all of those traps you have...you can keep the carpet!
Zagman
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Jan 21, 2005 15:55:56 GMT -6
the top photo is a coyote cuff#33 along with a sterling, the bottom shows the jaws in detail of a sterling, what these have going for them is first there cast not sheared, zero shrap edges to be found. As far as dogs go, I have caught dogs in both and all have been let go without long term effects, that runs the gambit from labs,collies, to sheep dogs. On fox it is the weight of the trap and the twisting, rolling nature of the fox, not the strength or offset of the trap.
With these strong willed traps, you get almost zero side to side or up and down foot movement, add in the cast jaws with 1/4"-5/16" offsets and there plenty animal friendly. The problems arise with self infliction from the coyote,some just lay there and it's hard to find the mark on there foot/pad, others fight hard as he** and you have some indentations of the foot, most pad catches in these 2 styles are almost untouched, the higher catches results in some marking, but when you use thin jawed traps, coupled with weaker springs and a hard fighting coyote/dog then you will have more cutting and tearing.
Live market traps there not ,unless you check the Bob W method and I would bet a large% would be fine, as the non tagret dogs have proven this to me. I will state most of my dog catches have been 24 hr checks, but a few have been 72hr, I have also caught ewes, lambs, and a few calves with few problems.
I feel the wider the jaw, the more paw friendly the trap will be provided, there are no sharp edges. Most coons are caught high and very few losses, yes you get the coon chewing but that happens, due to the jaw size and little restriction they have to get to the foot.
AS Buzz stated his like for the heimbrock on fox, it is a 4 coiled, cast jaw trap, weighted for a fox size critter.
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Post by Stef on Jan 21, 2005 16:23:45 GMT -6
I've caught 1 D with a Montana OS, 4 coiled and laminated ΒΌ top, shock spring and dog was fine. No damaged at all. I remember, he even did not break the wax on the shock spring.
His friend was in a MB650 cast jaws. Was fine too but a little more "squeezed" ;D
Stef
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Post by coyote on Jan 21, 2005 16:29:10 GMT -6
I'm betting JC's new # 2 Jake will be THE ticket!
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Post by yota on Jan 21, 2005 16:50:23 GMT -6
Zag,
Im workin on Jerry...........even offered "pro Bono " work and may have to go back into the tool and die buiz to get him goin.............great trap, just need to get it out there !
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Post by Stef on Jan 21, 2005 16:54:29 GMT -6
trappincoyotes35
The MJ above is it treated with the Zinc stuff?
Stef
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Post by briankroberts on Jan 21, 2005 17:22:47 GMT -6
Itricked out 3 dozen Bridger # 3's this year 3/16" inside and outside laminations baseplated shock springs and good swivels, ended up removing the 4 coil kits and they worked great almost no toe catches and even with the 2 springs Coyotes didn't slip at all, coons caught above the wrist were still there and there was no chewing, I'm assuming that it was the toe caught coon that chewed and weren't there in the morning.
Had a couple of dog catches and they were none the worse for wear, no kitty catches.
I also use the montana offset 2 coiled and center swiveled, I got some cetting/tearing on Yotes and will be outside laminating them for next year, I think this will solve that problem.
I will go to more of the double laminted bridger #3's next year.....B.....
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Jan 21, 2005 17:39:50 GMT -6
Nope stef that's what they look like after they come out of the clay gumbo after a month in that crappy clay, heck you can spin bowls out of it when it gets nice and wet!
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Post by skidway on Jan 21, 2005 19:18:47 GMT -6
I managed to get a lab and a brittany in fully modified Montanas. Neither were held for very long before being released and neither of them were injured beyond being a bit tender on that foot; in other words, no damage. The Montanas held EVERYTHING that tripped them (except deer and a pony) with almost no damage on a 24hr. check. One yote had a small cut up high on a leg that I believe came from one of the jaw lam ends which have since been ground down. I didn't get a fox in one and really don't think I would want to. The modified #3's would be pretty tough on them I'm guessing; especially if on a 48-72 hr. check. The non-mod version may be alright though- can't say. I see no need for soft catch traps in my future.
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Post by NattyBumpo on Jan 21, 2005 20:26:03 GMT -6
If you really want the best canine compromise trap that gets the job done on coyotes but will cause less damage to cats and dogs take a look at the #3 victor softcatch it would be the best.
But you cant treat it or set it like a regular trap. I will gladly pm you with a couple secrets that help make this the ultimate trap for what you asked. ;D
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Post by trappnman on Jan 21, 2005 22:05:13 GMT -6
I wouldn't mind the tips- but am not planning on any too soon. ;D
How do soft catches hold up to big coon? chewing on the pads? no effect?
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Post by NattyBumpo on Jan 21, 2005 22:14:16 GMT -6
I have caught my biggest coons ever in the 1.5 softcatch this year in fox dirthole sets and have not lost a single one to chewouts or pullouts. But yes them stinkin' coons do damage the pads sometimes but unless you are live market trapping it does not effect the traps performance.
Skunks cause my biggest problem and they seem to damage the pads every catch and I also have a bad chewout rate but only on skunks.
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Post by jsevering on Jan 22, 2005 11:35:52 GMT -6
Went through the wonderful world of traps, If I had my choice I would use all heimbrock 550's also.
raccoon are mostly caught by the rear foot, with very little or no damage. small coon were releasable.
have caught a few dogs in them all released, sore footed for a day or so. havnt lost any trapping ground or friends because of them.
released house cats (pets) rubbed their feet good to check them out and see if everything was working ok, told the owners that I was trapping on about the catches, no problems came back to haunt me to date.
the bevel in the offset will leave a line across the paw, that seems to last a little longer than any limp in some of the releases.
the line isnt as noticable on released domestic's as harvested canines.
wish jerry would go back in the trap making buisness, best trap I ever owned.
plan on checking out the new sterlings, this year, not sure Im to crazy about the pan tention adjustment, think most of that can be handled within the gun notch trigger system itself ....jim
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Post by NattyBumpo on Jan 22, 2005 11:55:45 GMT -6
Its funny that I switched to softcatch traps to help get permission by telling farmers they wont hurt dogs.
I always ask and on many of my farms I got very explicit instructions on what to do with dogs or cats that I catch as long as it is not their particular dog.
And it is not good news for the stray pets.
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