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Post by trappnman on Jan 5, 2005 8:19:30 GMT -6
so are you one of those guys that doesn't like to trap yotes until its cold and snow? Not me! Give me the dogdays of summer everytime! Or the mild days of fall..... I have to say there isn't much I like about winter trapping. There are so many problems, that its almost impossible to do well. Consider- 1) location- in farmland, the accessible locations....no longer are. Fields are plowed, roads are blocked, cattle are in new areas. 2) numbers- where I trap, a darn fine fall coyote trapper hit it hard ( ) and most of the pups, easy ones are gone. 3) snow- covers traps, covers roads, covers habitat 4) up and down weather- drives you crazy Two good things- no possums, no dogs. ___________________________________________ I'm pretty fgood at predicting coyote patterns in fall, spring and summer. Its easy to predict where they are and what they are going to do- think like a yote....works.. .....glory days in yote trapping. but this winter stuff- their patterns seem much more unpredictible- almost random...although I don't really think it IS random... but there seems to be no real patterns- perhaps they are more mobile this time of year? Certainly much less predictible. The fewer numbrs certainly has an effect on the patterns. so- you winter trappers- educate me on winter travel patterns, etc. Enquiring minds want to know... and to that end- does any trapper really have the old time "dispersal"? A mass movement of coyotes? I want to believe in it, I plan my lines believing it will happen...but quite honestly, I don't think it occurs in farmland areas, at least in any "organized" way...that is...a certain time or circumstance.
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Post by woody on Jan 5, 2005 8:37:24 GMT -6
I like winter Ki-yutes, ;D I think the fur is softer then and they are easier to catch, they have a harder time finding food and one can find their trails easier. I am allowed to use snares so that helps also. woody
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Mark
Demoman...
Posts: 219
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Post by Mark on Jan 5, 2005 8:51:14 GMT -6
I think winter coyote are easier to catch also, but it is a pain keeping a line working. I am going to concentrate on beaver now, but will trap coyote on two or three farms where the owner requested me to come back.
I got a question. My traps are in totes, but the back of my truck smells like beaver big-time. I am sure it has permeated into my packbasket and all the other stuff besides the traps. Do you think it will be a problem with set avoidance or might it help?
Mark
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Post by mmwb (Andrew Parker) on Jan 5, 2005 9:21:53 GMT -6
I don't care much for the snow either, though that is more because of my inexperience--trying to learn how to keep a trap functioning in the bloody fool stuff. A little new snow every night, warm up and thaw a little during the day, freeze up at night and tracks all over the frozen bed in the skiff of fresh snow the next night! I can use an antifreeze, but then the bed sticks out like a sore thumb and I get refusals. Peat moss seems to gather enough moisture to freeze a strong enough crust that will support a fox as well. Figure if I can't get the foxes in footholds, I'm not likely to get a coyote. I'm glad we can use snares or I would'nt be getting anything! lol Isn't the "learning curve" fun.
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Post by coydog on Jan 5, 2005 9:22:18 GMT -6
Ive never had any time left to take off to do a serios winter line, but I will get some out as soon as this snow lets up. I like snow trapping for the simple fact that the coyotes can't hide no more. They may change travel routes due to deep snow or a prey movement but you can always find them. Biggest travel pattern I see here is the massive amounts of "ice travel".
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Post by Iowa Badger on Jan 5, 2005 9:30:45 GMT -6
Never done serious canine trapping in snow either. Mainly for the reasons Steve said #1 being access to ground.
Coydog, do you snare the frozen creeks for coyotes?
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Post by coydog on Jan 5, 2005 9:38:07 GMT -6
I hope to get some in on them frozen cricks. Still gettin used to snares, first year Ive really given them a chance on coyotes. I can see I like em for this time of year, but need to make a few equipment adjustments if I am ever to get serious with them.
Just playin for now ;D
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Post by 17HMR on Jan 5, 2005 10:54:28 GMT -6
I find snow and yotes go together well, as far as travel patterns it is all wrote in the snow by the yotes themselves. I like to drive seldom used rodes and watch for crossings and trails leading off of them then make a judgement to use a flat set or a snare. Only thing I know for sure is that the more I learn the less I know. Jeff
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Post by blakcoyote on Jan 5, 2005 11:26:52 GMT -6
I dont winter trap coyotes,but I do call them.And calling farmland isnt as good as it was in the fall,but it seems I do better on farms that have creeks that run through them or some kind of swamp or thick pine.So I concentrate on those types of areas in my calling this time of year,if I was trapping right now thats where I'd trap,these areas are usually loaded with tracks,but the areas that where accessible in the fall are now long walks through the snow.
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Post by Stef on Jan 5, 2005 12:05:53 GMT -6
No bait piles out = a lot less coyotes.
In the winter, nothing beat having a few of those out in brushy areas.
Stef
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Post by briankroberts on Jan 5, 2005 13:16:08 GMT -6
Go west young man go west!!!!.....B....
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Post by Edge on Jan 5, 2005 15:13:44 GMT -6
If you had to survive the winter;where would *you*go?
I'm guessing not farmland.
Unless a working/calving farm;farms are a wasteland in winter.
Coyotes will head to tight country(where,coincidently,sets are more protected)as that is where all the prey is. If you have a good crust,they can and will travel;but in large amounts of powder they are easy to pattern.
Deer yards,swamps,and creekbottoms all see major traffic after ice-up;those are the money spots for yotes.
In the best of winter trapping(not including snares)I rely on about 1/2 of my sets functioning;usually it is much higher than that,but if I need to kill fur,I figure half,and then gang set accordingly.
Having taken quads in snares reminds me that winter can also make strange bedfellows;coyotes "pack"as ever,but rogues also "pack",sometimes to gain from the strength of a pack,and,IMHO,sometimes to steal from them.
Either way,winter is no time to set light.
Edge
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Jan 5, 2005 16:20:55 GMT -6
Winter coyotes are where you find them reguardless of were you live or the terrain. This time of year they have mating on the mind and food sources on the mind, all the deer are cleaned up for the most part, it is time to get onto the business of finding food. Cold weather means more calories burned, means less food sources available. There less apt to stay in areas because there is less food availble, they move more, remember a big% of there food sources have all been hunted to death by now and the numbers just aren't there, more roaming needed to get a full belly. The pheasants are leary, the deer are leary, the rabbitts are leary, and the females need to be well nourished to be in condition to mate and produce offspring. The easier the hunting the more coyotes you will find utilizing that area, mice in bales, deer yards, crp areas are excellent at this time of year because of the animals that utilize it for winter survival. Unpicked sunflower fields are excellent, sloughs, calving areas as mentioned, and sheep ground all will hold interest to coyotes. The rougher terrian will be utilized more to keep them warm and out of the wind, also these areas tend to have less human pressure at this time of year which means less need to flee and keeps calories from being wasted. I set up a sheep kill this morning -7 degrees, I found the coyotes using an oat field with left over bales, small bales but yet enough to keep some mice around, also much actvity in an unpicked sunflower field, I'm sure there holding up in that area. Traps and winter weather can be tough, but coal shale is excellent for covering traps, as Slim P would say switch to snares or head south if you intend to keep your coyote average up! Otherwise your dealing with problem/wary coyotes from now till end of August. Dispersal depends on coyote density,food sources as to when and how noticeable it is, it does happen it just maybe goes unnoticed for the most part. As if you have a good prey base in the fall and an easy first part of the winter, you won't get a big dispersal of fall pups, by the time they move and if you have decent pressure applied to them the numbers left at such time are smaller and you just don't see it taking place until now or even a little later. Mating and breeding rights will get them young coyotes moving, I had a ranch along a major creek drainage, that was dead for most of October no fresh sign and the such then came November and I picked up 7 coyotes in 11 days there all younger coyotes except for one big ol' male. I'm sure those coyotes came up from the river and where moving out to find there own territory.
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Post by trappnman on Jan 5, 2005 18:09:11 GMT -6
some good posts... Re: dispersals: you are talking western type dispersals. Im talking farmland- dispersal, to me, means a widespread movement of young. cause of weather, lack of habitat...whatever. THese caines move long distances, passing through much area until finding their own nitche. Or many are "free roaming"..that is, claim no territory. but in farmland- you don't, at least in my opinion, have that. Young coyotes don't have to move...they inherit. If the food, cover, lack of opposition is there- why move? btw- the one location I posted showing the intersection-100 yards on the left is my major carcass pile- a just about all my yotes, fox, coon plus a lot of rats, mink, beaver. I do think the major factor is that, as suggested, travel is reduced. All 6 of the locations I had set up had tracks- not fresh maybe....but tracks in what snow there was. I do not believe that any of the locations have had yotes visit since..at least, have seen no evidence. Maybe an inch or so of snow tonight...I truly hope so. I told Lori- I'd like to see a set worked and even a snapped trap..then I could say....darn it...almost got that one!
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Post by NEPISIGUIT on Jan 5, 2005 20:17:43 GMT -6
I AM ON A WORKING CALFING FARM WITH SNARES MOSTLY. Quite a bit of coyote sign, animals skiddish . Once an animal is caught the rest find a new route to enter the fields.I think coyote families. Always moving around with snares, hard work.Coyotes and cattle bed dfown together in meadow close to a spring. neat. WORK ON TRACKS AND TRAILS WITH SNARES. This years successful area may be next years bust.
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Jan 5, 2005 21:11:16 GMT -6
T'man wrote young coyotes in my area don't have to move they inherit. I would say we have an average litter size of about 5.8 pups per bred female numbers alone would dictate, that they "must" move do to the ratio of almost 6 pups per bred female,and if you run 30-40% males out of that litter, to keep genetics decent you must have some movement no matter the area of the US. Young of the year left by Mid January must strike out there own territory or fill in some areas, but with most trapper catches being in the range of 55-60% pup's or yearling coyotes, there has to be some shifting of coyotes. I would say that the mighty Mississippi is an excellent migratory route for coyotes to sift up and down, as well as any major drainage is, no matter the local. Lack of oppostion only last for so long in "good coyote habitat" as they can fill in very quickly, threw howling and scent marking,fill in can be depending on quality of habitat and time of year be measured in days to weeks.
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Post by trappnman on Jan 6, 2005 6:39:40 GMT -6
I said MY area.
our study found almost a complete turnover in coyotes in a 2 year period.
Shifting is not dispersal. Moving over is not dispersal.
Coyotes don't disperse to improve genetics. Coyote don't disperse to see the country.
Coyotes disperse for 1 reason- to find livable habitat.
If that habitat is on their rearing range- they stay.
If its next door- they go there.
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Jan 6, 2005 7:23:04 GMT -6
Coyotes must find liveable habitat for more than one reason though tman, pressure from adults in the area, food base down, and yes to keep the genetics from getting messed up. Dispersal doesn't have to be 30 miles or any set number, it can be to dispearse and vill voids left by others in a given area. If you have little to no movement of young coyotes, it stands to reason brother and sister yearlings could/would mate, and so on. I find it interesting that you have such a high turn over of coyotes in your area. Any ideas as to why you have such a complete turn over?
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Post by trappnman on Jan 6, 2005 7:46:59 GMT -6
Inbreeding happens in the wild just like in domestics. Availablility is the key- not the relationships.
The cause of the turnover- Many reasons- in no order- car kills (more than one would think), farmers (a lot get shot from tractors), deer hunters, other hunters, disease at times, accidents, me.
Keep in mind- that in a small study sample of yotes- these numbers might or might not translate to the entire population...but the tendecy would be to think that.
What you are trying to define is the TRADITIONAL dispersal of coyotes- studied and observed in his traditional range where he has been extablished for...eons.
What I am defining is his habits in his NON traditional range..... and as I said, I see no evidence whatsoever of a traditional dipersal.
A sliding over...sure.....fullingi n niches....sure...but more often than not...jut taking over because f population voids.
Also keep in mind that a large % of coyotes in an area are NON TERRITORIAL.....why would they then disperse?
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Post by Zagman on Jan 6, 2005 7:55:24 GMT -6
Dispersal is often described as coyotes/fox moving/finding new territories within 1-300+ miles.... So if they only move one or a couple miles, are they dispersing or just shifting? Probably getting hung up on semantics here.... When Tman is saying that if a coyote finds suitable habitat in its rearing area, it stays right there....is that implying that the parents are still there or dead and/or gone? I know that I can take a pretty good number of coyotes from a relatively small area and think I have them pretty much cleaned up..... But, I come back after deer season and the sign would indicate that I had not even trapped there.... A large sucking noise occurs, deer season starts pushing things around, and I assume, lack of vocalizations/scenting stations in that "territory" are now absent, and neighbors move in, or maybe even true travelers.... So, is this a dispersal or just shifting..... ? While it's probably a little of both, I have always viewed it as a dispersal....even if it just a single jump over on the checker board. Zagman
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