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Post by trappnman on Dec 20, 2004 20:40:21 GMT -6
I always think of this statement..."there isn't a coyote out there I can't catch". .ChrisM originally said it tongue in cheek to prove a point...and the thought has stayed with me ever since.
We kicked this around at the beginning of CRU..but we have a few more players now. So...
Can you...take any coyote out there?
A couple of qualifyiers:
1) he is still in the area...you see sign that he is active on that location. 2) footholds. I'll concede that a good snareman is going to take him sooner or later...
With footholds....are you confident you can take him?
What have you done in such instances?
Or are some coyotes just uncatchable?
The longest I messed with one was about a month. I had 1 more collar to put on in the late spring, and I had 2 sets that were being dug at every 2-3 days...both sets...a singular coyote...from what I could tell...which was only by actions and similar track size...was the same yote. These couple traps were convienent to check..and as long as I had a coyote there...I figured I'd wait him out.
I'd change lures and change looks..even move a set a couple of times...all to no avail. Every day or two..there would be those coyote tracks and there would be the digging or ignoring.
Finally, around the corner so the new set was out of sight from the old, I dumped 5 gals of dry dirt. I made a gopher type hole into it...and made my set. Baited it with 2 gophers and some mink lure. 2 days later, a big female. And both of the old sets were worked the same day, so I ASSUME it was same one. I never checked back, as I was more than happy to quit checking those traps!
I'd sure be interested in some of your "uncatchable yotes".....
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Post by ChrisM on Dec 20, 2004 21:50:17 GMT -6
Any coyote that walks, crawls or flys!! ;D
IF it stays in the area
IF you have the time to devote to it.
IF you have the desire/need to catch it.
No secret sets. No secret lures.
Footwork, NATURAL looking sets, confidence and patience.
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Dec 20, 2004 21:57:54 GMT -6
Slim Peterson has made the same comment and I beleive if you let the coyote tell you how to catch him/her it makes it easier. I would say coyotes in late fall/winter when ma nature deals them the heavy blow of caloric intake, makes them a tad easier to get to working a set or series of them more than once. The hardest time for the real wise ones, pinched a time or two are those from July-August, when there diets switch and life is good, more fruits and insects being eaten, some turds are nothing but 100% grasshoppers and some have little interest in the standard dirthole, flat set. Some will try and way over analize these coyotes and think they need to get that special set or trick play out of the book, when in all reality the most crude sets make the oinched ones easiest to catch. I have had some get caught at a prairie dog hole with a fresh killed dog hanging it's butt out the hole, others have went for a fresh killed rabbitt dug in the base of some sage, looking like a natural hunting situation, one this coyote can't resist as it is 100% natural. I know a good trapper that had a dry female killing lambs, tried everything, then found a badger hole and chucked in a road killed grouse, and walla had that coyote and stopped the killing. The reason they work is most are natural situations and something the coyote has never seen before, therefor can't react in a negative way. No 45 degree holes, or wobble hole flat sets, just natural baits no lures and a natural presentation. Fur trappers can and do pass on spending alot of time on a trick coyote, but when doing predator control, if your unlucky and get one like this you have no choice but to find away to get rid of them, or your killing continues on. So you must let the coyote show you where,why,when and how, that will make it much quicker than, over analizing things. Good topic.
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Post by briankroberts on Dec 21, 2004 7:11:30 GMT -6
If he's working sets at all, he can be caught, I have 1 or 2 a year that work sets from the side or scratch lightly at sets exposing the trap, couple of new sets sometimes takes care of it. I very rarely add another trap.....
I had one this year and added a very loud dirthole and a well blended post set at the edge of the catch circle, 2 days later she was in the post set, .....B....
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Post by bobwendt on Dec 21, 2004 10:48:30 GMT -6
I have plenty that are not worth my time to catch, but never seen one I couldn`t catch given the proper monetary stimulous and no llimits on my labor or time to muck it up. Most of those flaky ones aren`t worth the effort if not an adc situation. I give them to the chris guys he he. They are getting paid, I`m not. Once in awhile I get a freebie for them too, so it works out even.
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Post by Edge on Dec 21, 2004 12:08:44 GMT -6
** I give them to the chris guys he he. **
What a *prince*!
I killed a coyote this year that was virtually immune to any electronic sound available(according to the landowner) thru dennis kirk,foxpro,or stewart......landowner threw the book at him.
I made a very elaborate plan of sequenced calls,rough guessed his location and went back the next day.
Where I saw it standing next to the silo and shot it.
While my *plan* was good,it was not *that* good.
Edge
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Post by blakcoyote on Dec 21, 2004 13:21:28 GMT -6
My go to sets when I run into problems is some kind of trail set.On one occasion I had a %@## coyote kill a couple reds in my sets and dig the others out,everyday the traps were dug.I piddled around with all kinds of sets,flat sets, dirtholes,two traps set at a set,but no luck.Two traps at a set only produced 2 traps dug.I was new at this at the time,but was gonna catch that coyote if it killed me.Well my uncle told me he was gonna disc down the field,so I got to thinking. about trails coming into the field.I found 4,one was well worn.So I took and bedded a trap right in the fenceline on the trail,I figured that all the fresh dirt that would be turned over may distract the coyote and he would pay less attention to the fresh trap bed.I didnt use any lure,just a blind trail set with some grass bent over for a step over.The next day nothing,it rained a little that nite and early morning,but the next day I had a nice coyote waiting,it was an old female with worn down teeth.Now when I run into a problem I'll resort to some type of trail set,and it has worked out well.This year I had a farm I wasnt able to get on right away due to time restraints,and it was the only farm another trapper had permission to trap.I got set up about a week and a half after him,he had pulled out with no luck.The first check produced all but 1 trap dug and that held a coon.I gave it another day,and found dug up traps again,this is the first and only place I had trouble this year.So I decided to try the mafia trail set I seen on here,I've heard about it before but didnt pay much attention to itSo after reading about I decided to try a version of it on this critter.On the 2 track farm lane I drove on,I place a montana right in the track,bedded it solid and left it for 4 days no lure.I drove by it everyday.Well on the fourth day as I drove by,I stopped next to the set opened the door,and not getting out,just took a tooth pick dipped in mink gland and dropped it right where a hole would be if it were a dirthole.The next day I come down the 2 track and had a nice coyote waiting for me,the pick is posted on the contest page.I seen a couple ideas on here that I'll be giving a try someday.
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Post by trappnman on Dec 21, 2004 13:51:36 GMT -6
Crude sets? THe more crude the set is, the better to take a real pinched one?
Cannot agree with that 1 at all, at least according ot Webster's definition of crude. I had a farmer trap 2 coyotes by wiring uncovered traps to the manure spreader. Now thats crude.
Must "pinched" coyotes came from, in my definition, crude sets.
Now if by crude you mean simple...I can go along with that.
Or more importantly...different.
A set that is simple and quick to make..and different from what the coyote has been seeing daily...will do the trick.
And this is a "for fun"situation....not a contest or a justification...
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Post by dj88ryr on Dec 21, 2004 14:04:52 GMT -6
Crude Set: What Zags cut bank set looked like after the dirt and debris stopped flying, I really liked it, looked like a nuke strike, and I bet the coyotes notice it too
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Dec 21, 2004 14:06:14 GMT -6
Crude in my defination is getting back to the real basics of trapping,as you stated simple, not what you find in 90% of all trapping books showing dirtholes carbon copied, and the such. I would say most pinched coyotes come from the carbon copied sets of the last 30 years, not many webster defined crude trappers around anymore, most pinched coyotes I see are ones that roll, or approach a standard set with some not relaizing what a bait or lure might get reaction wise from a coyote, or one that got the lucky pass or two, due to trap size/condition and set construction, soil type and covering of trap etc. It happens in calling as well, there are some call shy coyotes that can be real bears to bring in as well, alot of pot shot at coyotes, or callers blowing sounds from the seat of there pick up truck, the 600+ yard shooting etc.
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Post by trappnman on Dec 21, 2004 14:50:58 GMT -6
Simple is the most important part of troubleshooting..and thats basically what a hard to catch coyote is.... a "breakdown" and troubleshooting techniques come into play.
When the going is good, when we are riding that "there ain't a coyote I can't catch" high...we are like a sports team that cannot do anythng wrong.... everything we do seems golden....we can't keep the cooytes out of the sets, or so it seems. And we get sloppy..... We get a little careless.
Then that period comes (like it always does) when we have a few problems. More digigng tan usual. Avoidances. Whatever....and whats the cure....?
Troubleshooting. Do it by the book. Every step is thought out...not over thinking...but merely paying attention to detail... clean trap...check....location, direction...check...solidly bedded trap....check...etc.
A set made the way you would TEACH someone to make...not necesarily how you do it in the flurry of running a line.
simple....different.....
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Post by DaveLyons on Dec 21, 2004 19:14:18 GMT -6
I really like this post.
Heres a story that just seems to keep reaping its for me the last few years.
Last yr I got a call from a farmer in the area to come remove some coyotes. Well I arrived to the farm and set up like normal. Dirt holes on every location with good ole bait. Well after a few weeks with nothing but skunks and possums I was pulling my hair out and coyote sign was there just about everyday. So I went and asked the farmer if some had trapped there already. Shocker when I found out well yes but the guy could hold a coyote in any of his traps. Great!!!!!!!!
So back out I go and set up a location the coyotes had been going to daily. But this time I had a calf shull and a little bit of gland lure. Made the set and checked it everyday for about two weeks. On the thrid week there sat the big Alpha Male looking dumber the a box of rocks. I did nothing to this set all this time it rained in snowed and froze and rained again. And I would check the trap from a ways away.
After this catch the whole place went dead and nothing come back till spring.
Dave
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Post by Freebird on Dec 21, 2004 19:32:27 GMT -6
Chris , Is that by any method legal tro use or just traps?
Here is my take on it, your chris M, huber, OG can and will take any yote they wish, that is what they do every day. Let em use a rifle or an M44 the time line diminishes. Traps only may take the patience Chris spoke of.
I think most guys don't have the time or patience to chase a singular coyote. Around here there isn't much call to do so with a few exceptions. I also beleive when killing problem coyotes is your job it is harder to relate to guys fur trapping for fun or even on a part time basis. Mike
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Dec 21, 2004 19:51:21 GMT -6
Free bird you made an excellent point, the more tools you have at your disposal the better the job you can do in predator control, but just as in trapping, there is better times and places for each of those tools, I have had some m-44's that had coyotes just pass on by and wished I had traps in there places as I know they would have connected, better than the m-44 in these areas and with the coyotes at hand. The hardest part is finding an attractor they will pull on a somewhat regular basis, and time of year and coyote conditions dictate there ability to pull an m-44 or not. Calling can be the quickest tool in the right place at the right time, but a foot trap can be used 365 and be the most effective tool at someones disposal more often than not as well. As stated confidance is a big part of it and the leg work at various times of the year to find just the right place or to figure out that certain coyote, as a snare can be the deal breaker many times as well, as Chris stated the keys are confidance, patiance and having that coyote stay in the area, for it to payoff.
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Post by ChrisM on Dec 24, 2004 19:06:24 GMT -6
Sorry Mike, I've been gone for a few days. You are correct. Every coyote can be trapped and thats what I was referring to with my prior post. But as you and 35 stated, the more tools ya have the better. No sence chasing a tough one around for 30 days if ya can call him up and shoot him in one morning. As you say, most furtrappers dont have the time or patience to chase a singular coyote. Likewise, I know lots of ADC men who lack the mindset to longline for fur. Good post 35. "Crude"..."Simple" Semantics are neat! As long as it dont look "constructed!"
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Post by ChrisM on Dec 24, 2004 19:20:55 GMT -6
Another note. 35 mentioned the use of natural baits. I use a lot of these in the summer months. PD down a hole is a favorite and a buried badges is as close as it gets to a guaranteed coyotes in this country. Also like flat sets with droppings and good pure gland lure or urine. Over the years I have actually used very little compounded/commercial lures
But just to prove the exception, this past summer on a bad killing complaint I trapped 17 adults between July 20 and the end of August. Every single one of them was caught on a loud, skunky LDC lure. Every one!
Lesson?......dont out smart/think yourself. When something working, run with it!
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Post by foxcatcher1 on Dec 24, 2004 21:45:15 GMT -6
I could not agree more with the K.I.S.S. on trouble shooting coyotes. I had one 2 years ago that was killing me. Would walk up to a dirt hole stay back about 10" from trap and give good sniff then wonder off. Did this to every set I had in his area. Flat sets were no help (even though they seem like the obviose fix). I tried lure changes, diffrent guideing, and diffrent sets ( i.e. hole size, backing size, ect. ect.) What's the one thing that I left out so far? ? Come on you know its jumping out at you. ...................................... Yep moved the trap back that extra 10" and on the second day there he was a big ol dog coyote that's teeth were so wore down he could have used a good set of falsies. Bob tailed to boot. It was the most obviouse correction but I got so used to the cookie cutter dirthole trap placement that I failed to see the big picture. Don
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Post by bobwendt on Dec 25, 2004 5:10:07 GMT -6
if I do get a sniffer/kicker/looker and he is a have to go coyote, it is generally a simple matter to make the standard sniffer/kicker/looker set- maybe even a fakle set with no trap- but make it on a definite used cow trail, 2 track etc and just trap like you did as a kid, the real trap in a blind set in the trail coming or going. Why jack around with changing anything about your sets as to lures/baits etc.? Chris m. , isn`t it a breath of air to talk trapping, real trapping? I wish all this other stuff we talk about would just go away .
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Post by Danny Clifton on Dec 25, 2004 5:35:23 GMT -6
This is a good read. I love trapping coyotes. No one mentioned snares. A snare on a fence crawl under is deadly. Its quick and easy to hang. Ive met coyotes that I'm convinced knew what a snare was but they are even rarer than the true trap shy coyote. Here in Ks we dont have bait restrictions. A phone call to the sherriffs dept I can have a deputy tag a road kill deer for me. Its legal then to put it anywhere I want. I like my snares back a few hundred yards. And not just on fences. By putting the deer where I want it I can pick spots where snares will really work. And Merry Christmas All. My family will be up soon so I better get off now.
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Post by trappnman on Dec 25, 2004 8:54:50 GMT -6
we got off the subject a little in that I was concerned not with controling coyotes, but in determining comfidence in using footholds.
But the tangents, as always, were interesting.
Control, if it is your job, is easy. If calling, M-44s, snares, etc don't work..gas up the plane....
And its not really the point if you don't have the time or energy... the point is CAN you?
Or, as some believe, are there coyotes that simply CANNOT be taken in a foothold?
I believe yes- that that is true. IF a coyote will work a set.... or can be patterned....with time and SIMPLE (read that as NATURAL) sets, you can take him.
So it comes down to this- are there coyotes that...associated "danger" with lure, patterns, faint human scent, the wax, the screens. steel.....whatever his KEY is...once encountering the key- he's gone.
But here's the equalizer. I do believe, and amazingly enough the Logan research reaffirms this- that those "uncatchable" coyotes can be caught with ease OUTSIDE OF HIS CORE TERRITORY.
That is...you might have a coyote that is "uncatchable" in one region...but when he travels elewhere, he works sets differently and indeed reacts differently to smells and stimuli.
I think it happens frequently where a coyote is a problem on one farm or area...but down the road...he's an easy mark.
------------------------------------------------------ Semantics sure ARE neat....
crude: marked by the primitive, gross or elemental; rough and/or inexpert in plan and action; lacking a covering, glossing or concealing....
I don't equate that with "simple". I was crude in my first few years of canine trapping. My farmer friend wiring uncovered raps to am anure spreader was "crude"....
When I stopped being crude, I became successful..
Crude is for coon. And Friday nights....
Simple = Natural? It can.
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