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Post by bobwendt on Sept 8, 2004 19:42:29 GMT -6
bad bad leroy brown, baddest dude in the whole da** town.....
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Post by Edge on Sept 8, 2004 19:55:14 GMT -6
New question;
Of the coyotes you have taken,over the last 5 yrs,during fur season,in foothold traps,would you have missed *without*the logan research.
Thats info I can use.
**I guess I really don't see where giving a different opinion than you is "a big effing hassle". Does the debate stop after 1 post?
Giving a different opinion is not;paraphrasing my reply to "be against research"is.As far as the bebate goes,why debate my opinion,thats the part I dont get.
Re worthless,I never,here or anywhere else said that they are "worthless";just for me,not of practical use on the trapline.
I hope thi clears things up and Bob can still be the baddest.
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Post by trappnman on Sept 8, 2004 20:02:35 GMT -6
"Of the coyotes you have taken,over the last 5 yrs,during fur season,in foothold traps,would you have missed *without*the logan research."
Well- the lures I prefer were based in part on the Logan research-
More importantly- I now choose new locations based on conclusions I have drawn based on experience AND the research-
I could trap just about any farm around- I want to choose new setups carefully.... Knowing certain things- helps me choose the hotspot locations.... tim was right on that- why set up 10 farms for 2 canines when you can set up 1 for 20?
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Post by Edge on Sept 8, 2004 20:05:57 GMT -6
**tim was right on that- why set up 10 farms for 2 canines when you can set up 1 for 20? **
Tim logan?Or timmyonetwofive?Well whoever it was,yes they were right.
Edge
PS where is timmy onetwofive?
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Post by trappnman on Sept 8, 2004 20:13:42 GMT -6
Tim125.... decided more fun to throw sand than play nice... deja vu...
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Post by Edge on Sept 8, 2004 20:16:52 GMT -6
Oop,yep,I knew that,but forgot,but it sounds familiar........sorry. I am suffering from sleep deprivation I think......
Edge
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Post by bobwendt on Sept 8, 2004 20:27:33 GMT -6
tman, I`m sorry he is gone. All add to this site. Maybe you can let him back and maybe he can be a little more mellow. Too few of us to lose anyone if it is salvageable at all. IMHO, of course, seriously.
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Post by trappnman on Sept 8, 2004 21:57:36 GMT -6
Bob- he basically singlehandedly destroyed 1 forum- he tried to destroy other reputations out of jealousy I suppose...and after being banned from every other forum- was accepted here.
But that wasn't enough. Slowly...but surely..the same toe was emerging... repeated warnings were to no avail...finally----the negatives outweighed the positives....so that was it.
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Post by mattjones298 on Sept 8, 2004 23:22:04 GMT -6
big giant head...get some sleep
matt
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Post by bobwendt on Sept 9, 2004 4:34:21 GMT -6
I was not aware of the history there. I guess he was the guy wanting to challenge everyone to trapping contests and such on some other forums? Like initials a.c.?
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Post by trappnman on Sept 9, 2004 5:35:11 GMT -6
Yes-
I felt if he wanted- he could share a lot of knowledge...but.....
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Post by Zagman on Sept 9, 2004 5:39:25 GMT -6
Due to the short time I trap, I too, am basically a location and sign trapper. I try to get on family groups early that are still together, and I base this on the volume of sign/turds/tracks of all different sizes, etc.
In mid-late October, if I find a lot of concentrated sign, I assume I am on a group that has not broken up.....not an area where coyotes from several territories are hanging together.
If I were trapping longer, I would really try to whittle down the bulk of my early locations to better dispersal/travel routes.......but even then, I know I would still be setting up locations based purely on how them look....
I will say that I have some farms that are always good producers and some that are not, but for the most part, every year is different for me. This, I beleive, is due to family/pup trappiing and being on family groups that are NOT NECESSARILY in the same exact spot/on the same farms each year. Thus, I set on sign as much as I can.
Still, like Matt, I set a lot of locations purely on the way it looks.....OR it is a spot I have done well at in the past.
Someone once said a location looks a whole lot different once you catch a coyote there.....I often set these "sentimental" locations and probably would be better served with that trap elsewhere.....
My question on the research and fringe vs. core and visuals gets down to this: Do you really make different types of sets or different/better visuals or different/better lures based on being in one area or the other?
My way of thinking is I am putting my best foot forward at ALL locations, i.e., with visuals/lure etc., because I want to catch any and all coyotes there, regardless of what the area is defined as. Due to the variables such as wind direction and such, I place it as close as I can to the travel route, and I make every set so it will be noticed and doctor it with the best smells I have......
This is where I get confused......
Zagman
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Post by trappnman on Sept 9, 2004 5:57:06 GMT -6
My question on the research and fringe vs. core and visuals gets down to this: Do you really make different types of sets or different/better visuals or different/better lures based on being in one area or the other?
No. But knowing how coyotes react in different areas, knowing that its easier to trap a coyote in unfamilar territory- I do this: 1) look for similar locations. Sure- I'm like anyone else- I set up spots that look like "coyotes". And most of those spots- DO have coyotes. Those "perfect" coyote spots are most likely (just a SWAG) home or core areas- meaning 1) potential coyotes are limited 2) coyotes will work a set less aggressively AND less often. So- why not look for locations- as long as you are looking..that 1) have many potential coyotes 2) work a set more often AND more aggressively. These locations are the spots that DO NOT go dead after 1 or 2 coyotes. Someone once said- "The hardest thing to do is to pass by those areas where you KNOW you can catch 1 coyote" And thats true- if I drive right by- I still set them up- but if I have to drive much out of my way- those spots are eliminated- simply because numbers don't mean much at the end- its $$$ per coyote- and if I drive out of my way to check a trap for a week or so- even if I catch a coyote, I lost $$$. So no, I don't make different sets or approach things diffrently- but the research knowledge is a KEY to improving my locations. If I could get 15 hotspots and get the same #'s - I would not hesitate, rather than driving all over into 50 farms. I have a handful of such locations- I see the potential in several new permissions I got this season. Its like any "trick"- understanding patterns and motivations- actions and reactions of coyotes might only add a few yotes to the boards each year...but thinking doesn't cost me nothin' and its a cheap way to improve your catch.....
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Post by bobwendt on Sept 9, 2004 8:08:17 GMT -6
tman, in your last post you neglected to quantify are you talking fall family groups or winter migrators. Zag specifically mentioned early fall groups prior to break up. All the difference in the world how one chooses locations depending on is it summer/fall familys or winter migraters. That "1 coyote" location you mentioned as not worth your time(negative cash flow!) might prove to be a 10-20 location the last 3 weeks of january. I do agree with zag that coyote familys, while occupying the same home range every season, in good denning/habitat areas, definitly may not be camped on the same 640 acres every october 15th as the previous year- in other words , the "6" spot may move a 1/2 mile or maybe even a mile. I know "areas" that will always raise a litter due to perfect habitat-feed/cover/water/security etc., but the son of a guns do move around from one side of that home territory to the other, moving the whole gang in one bunch. You can be 1/2 or mile off and nobody home. in other words, the family unit does not boogy around their whole home area every night, but rather camps on say the sw quadrant for a week or month while plums and berries are in, maybe another quadrant when corn is in milk stage, maybe another yet near a carcase dump in cold weather etc. And it all changes a little from year to year depending on crops, tillage droughts etc.
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Post by trappnman on Sept 9, 2004 9:34:18 GMT -6
Bob- I agree!
I am talking fall- but these same fall hotspots were my summer collaring hotspots.
Although like I said earlier- we don't get that winter exodus you mention- you had to be spot on them in Jan. Feb, Mar.
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Post by bobwendt on Sept 9, 2004 10:54:41 GMT -6
I think your summer collering coyotes and your early fall coyotes are the same bunchs not broke up or migrating yet. Do you ever go back in during late jan or feb? I`m betting not and would also bet if you did things would be different locationwise. Maybe I`m all wet, just going by how it is where I trap- ks/wy./in.
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Post by briankroberts on Sept 9, 2004 19:59:35 GMT -6
I have this point of view, there are lots of places that a few Coyotes use and a few places that lots of Coyotes use!!! These are what I look for around here there the out of the way places that connect larger tracts of timber, like long waterways or ridges that run for miles and intersect with other features. A lot of these places can only be found through trial and error. I find out where differnt family units live sometimes in the summer just by farmer complaints( cats or chickens dissapearing) or by spotting mulitpil road killed pups saw two today. Above and beyond that and I'm only guessing.....B.....
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Post by bobwendt on Sept 10, 2004 5:56:43 GMT -6
brian, I like to think I am good enough to pick those spots , but truth be known, a lot of the super spots are indeed found by trial and error -and then the better spots stay and the lesser go by the wayside. On occasion I find a spot that from all appearances of habitat, lay of the land, known coyote behavior, everything past experience has taught, appear to be super spots. But for reasons unknown, the coyotes don`t think so. On the reverse , I have on a lark or 6th sense, whatever, set locations that appear to be good for a one time stray at best, but year in and year out are old dependables. Like one, a little rise in the middle of a bald grain field of an even square mile, surrounded by miles and miles of more of the same, open fields, no cover, no fence rows , no ditchs, no hog farms, nothing. Yet I have taken maybe 35 coyotes off that little knob over the years. Just shoes to go ya, a guy never really gets it all figured out the whys on coyotes. I guess that is why we never get bored with it and yet most at some point get bored with rats, coon, beaver and even red fox. Denning is the same way, there are cetain rough canyon systems that I can almost always count on having a coyote den off on a little side cut , way back, almost every spring, maybe 2 years out of three. And other places that appear good but I know are a waste of time looking as none ever there. And then once in awhile find the oddest den, like under the loading chute in the sheep corral up next to the ranch buildings- the whole while all the planes and motorcycles are searching the canyons way in the back. Man, those kind really make a guy feel dumb!
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Post by trappnman on Sept 12, 2004 14:26:40 GMT -6
Yes, Bob- or maybe...
Every other Jan or so, I play around with a few sets-
I found very few coyote tracks in my "normal areas"- the coyote numbers, such as they are, are i nthe bands of woods around the streams and in the deep dark coulees- Hell's Coulee for example, is so steep to be almost impassible for a man on foot- good wintering spots.
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Sept 13, 2004 16:15:33 GMT -6
To be spot on coyotes in Late Feb and March look no farther than your spring calving pastures, they will be dead on them sucking up after birth and the few brave will take a calf now and again. Coyotes are easy snaring when this time comes around tracking is excellent with a little snow and consider the calves the middle of a wheel and set all entry points comming to them . Trapping with strong urine and a good passion gland lure will bring them in well, Jan-March. Anytime after the first of the year there home range starts to shrink, if in an area that gets heavy pressure, your dealing with less coyotes to disperse, but you will get dispearsal in one form or the other, population, climate and food source plays into a heavy dispersal or a family group staying tighter due to deer killing etc. The young get bumped off more and more as mating starts to kick in and play's the yearly role.
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