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Post by coydog on Sept 3, 2004 13:34:12 GMT -6
Anyone who has trapped coyotes in December has probably noticed the period when coyotes just blow on by sets without any acknowledgement, not that the sets where wrong or they were 'spooked'', they just have other things on their minds. Very irritating So, the topic is this: How do you fellas personally adapt to these conditions when you start to notice these habits? How do you go about getting their attention when they are being air headed. EX.... Change up in lure type? More subtle or more showy type sets? Different type locations? Snares? etc... Lets hear some different ideas how some of you guys deal with this .
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Post by tim125 on Sept 3, 2004 20:25:28 GMT -6
females in heat
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Post by mattjones298 on Sept 3, 2004 20:29:19 GMT -6
i`m sure your talking about mid-fall or i think you are anyway..i`ll tell ya what i do i trap coons...lol
i re-read the post and i see your talking december, normaly by then i`m coyote trapping and don`t seem to have much trouble unless realy warm and blue bird days, the days most duck hunters hate a coyote trapper hates too. if it was a good pup year you can kinda keep your average up with them though
matt
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Post by redfoxtrapper2000 on Sept 3, 2004 20:39:49 GMT -6
For me there has always been a time like this usually about three weeks of great trapping then the line goes dead back when we trapped lots of fox same thing.I just keep pluging along and still get one or two a day but the average is terrible I used to blame the moon phase still do sometimes but thats not the answer and as far as what to do about it I dont have a clue. But I am anxiously awaiting someones who has the answer, good post.
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Sept 3, 2004 20:52:44 GMT -6
Yes it is true that mating and defending territory for males exspecially become more important. Doesn't mean you can't catch coyotes or call coyotes. Use gland lures suited for such and strong coyote urine. Also calling with female invataion howls later in the month works well. The thing I would stress if you can use snares this is a great time, as if they are ignoreing your common sets and lures, they still must get from point A to point B, and with a little tracking snow snares are a deadly tool at this time of year. I spray paint mine white in July and air out for the summer/ fall, they blend in so well when the ground is covered in snow. Also they still must eat, so draw stations with traps or snares will get you connecting with them more regular as well. Check your laws for trap distance and make sure your working within the law!
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Post by coydog on Sept 3, 2004 21:18:37 GMT -6
Im talkin around the 3rd week in Dec, at least here, my catch drops off the table. I see a big change in travel here and a lot of aimless wandering. I have adapted somewhat and manage a few, but its tough trappin. Matt, you say you have no sign of this? Interesting. Maybe them KY kiyutes do this at a different time then here Females in heat. Definately! Or in the early stages. Snares, yeah, they are the ticket, but what about footholds? What are you going to present a coyote that has 1 thing on their minds? In heat urine?? I have used plenty of glands at this time and havent come to any conclusion that that is the answer. A good LDC has outpreformed glands for me at this time hands down. ( interesting though trappincoyotes) Any other comments? Am I nuts!!!! Thanks for the responses fellas
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Post by redfoxtrapper2000 on Sept 3, 2004 21:23:08 GMT -6
lol you aint nuts thats just about the same time I see this only earlier ,I think Matt is serious hes catching coon which may may not be a bad idea. It sounds like it may happen a little earlier here but it does happen but through the years Ive noticed some years it went unnoticed at least by me
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Post by blakcoyote on Sept 3, 2004 23:17:21 GMT -6
I have the same problem here and it coincides with the closing of gun deer season.And my thoughts on it,at least here anyway is there's plenty of gut piles and lost dead deer and the coyotes are pretty much fat and happy at that time and maybe alittle more spooked by the blaze orange clad swarms of hunters that left the woods and all the shooting that went on.
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Post by RiverRat on Sept 4, 2004 2:25:59 GMT -6
I am saying shotgun (deer) season just starting they are spooked just like when bird season opens an theirs gut piles everywhere not to mention being shot at or chased everytime they turn a corner
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Post by trappnman on Sept 4, 2004 5:45:22 GMT -6
Mid Dec is too early to come into season. At least around here- no earlier than mid Feb- this means the pups are born at the ned of April, early May. I don't if 60 days before breeding seaosn has much effect- since it is the females that trigger the males response, not visa versa.
Males also come ito "season"- that is, they only are able to breed whjen the females are receptive, and as I said around here, that occurs not until Feb.
I don't trap Dec yotes- but trap a ton of mid Nov and some Jan yotes.
In mid Nov- I do get the standoffish ones and the odd ones- but I believe they were alway there- you were just catching the young and dumb ones-
plus just consider the population reduction-
I also trap during 2-3 weeks of deer season, and while VERY heavily hunted areas see a reduction in local cooytes- they just move next door for a while- deer hunting doesn't really affect my daily catch.
For sure, in Jan, getting them to work the set is of no concern- keeping traps working is.
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Post by tim125 on Sept 4, 2004 6:11:02 GMT -6
most canines come into season several times in different spurt lenghts- there all the same-
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Post by trappnman on Sept 4, 2004 6:14:36 GMT -6
btw- pretty darn easy in snow to see when canines are in season.
I should add- I'm out in the woods at least a few hours everyday all through the snow months. I track a lot of coyotes- a lot.
and as I say, its pretty easy to see when the females are in season when youhave snow. About the middle of Feb, you start seeing the drops in the snow- first a trail here and there- but in a few days, yo usee it widespread.
While there might be a female that comes in earlyhere and there- I see no sign of it and the cases must be rare. Pairbonding and ease in pup care determine when canines come into season- the pups need to be born at the right time for survival. Pups born in the winter (as coydogs are) have little chance of surviving and any "in season early" trait would die out with it..
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Sept 4, 2004 6:49:15 GMT -6
It's the build up and anticapation. caused by daylight hours and others factors. By mid/ end of December they have been chased, trapped,called, and there bodies are telling them different things for the build up. Also they change there routes some at this time of year. Move to denser cover, I have noticed in the winter for many reasons, better cover with the cold wind blowing, thats where the foods sources move to as well. Try Fur Countrys Seduction Dec-March ;D. A good gland lure, also I have had luck with canine call and ogormans LDC, but seduction and good strong coyote urine during these periods works well for me. Also red fox in heat gland lures works well, I think this is a great curiosity for coyotes. Depending on snow cover, If deep I'm running 75% snares and 25% foot traps, just makes more sense with blowing drifting snows. Some years breeding can be off up to a couple of weeks different due to food source and weather conditions. I would like to know of any research done on a post secondary breeding period like whitetails, they have a primary breeding period and then a secondary period. I think weather factor plays into breeding and can very the times depending on geography.
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Post by Steve Gappa on Sept 4, 2004 7:01:40 GMT -6
I did a fair bit of research on it a few months ago- and found a couple of things
1) breeding season did vary- but not much. Area to area more than within an area.
2) while many animals do have a secondary rut..in fact whitetails can have a couple mini ruts- I found nothing talking about a secondary season for coyotes.
Remember that there are a lot of females that either don't come into season that first year or aren't bred if they do. I see little natural advantage if any to a secondary season.
I doubt if weather would have much factor- I think while it will vary a little, its going to be like primness- cold, hot, etc don't matter- its the length of the days.
I think that this breeding thing in Dec isn't a factor- if you do, thats fine.
I think it simply is as I stated: those coyotes were there along and doing the same things- just whwen yo uare catching good numbers the misses aren't as important and 2, like 35 said
"By mid/ end of December they have been chased, trapped,called, and there bodies are telling them different things for the build up. Also they change there routes some at this time of year. Move to denser cover, I have noticed in the winter for many reasons, better cover with the cold wind blowing, thats where the foods sources move to as well. "
No real mystery. Less coyotes, winter is coming on.....
As to what works? Well-- I use the same lures with the same results in Jan, Feb, Mar, April, May, June, July, August, Sept, Oct and Nov.
A good lure is a good lure is a good lure.
I have not tried trapping coyotes in Dec- that my mink time.
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Post by coydog on Sept 4, 2004 9:08:11 GMT -6
Good posts! Deer season, and the zillions of gut piles are a definite impact!
Trappincoyotes said: It's the build up and anticapation. caused by daylight hours and others factors
Mid December I do see more pairs. Maybe not into breeding quite yet, but focusing more on keepin tabs on their honeys.\ So getting the females attention might be a key?
Again good info guys, your gettin me out of the box!
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Post by coyoteman37 on Sept 4, 2004 9:16:23 GMT -6
when yotes show no intrest thats when the fun begins. follow his track 1to 200 yds. gang set gang set gang set. put sets closer together so the wind really carries sll scent. try 3 sets in a triangle. or a stomp set this will usally pull them in also you may need more eye appeal.
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TrapperHod
Tenderfoot...
member of NMTA, VTA, ATA, and NTA
Posts: 22
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Post by TrapperHod on Sept 4, 2004 10:10:18 GMT -6
At times here I see an avoidance but I think its more due to the bait. Scat found at these times will be high in grasses and mesquite beans I just move tight to the mesquites catch goes back to norm.
I know when they come out of this they want meat baits .
I read a report that said that canines lost weight On a vegetarian diet. Maybe thats how they trigger there body to start using stored body fat. I know at these times they appear to be bean eaters at this time here Hod
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Sept 4, 2004 12:47:30 GMT -6
The female yearlings I caught this summer where High% of unbred. I also noticed that the avg of the bred females I have taken 7 pups per female, checked placental scars. We had reports of pups being born at mid april from some areas, so breeding while not counted in months different can vary by weeks. That time period from Mid December -end of Feb is a definate time of change for coyotes. Lures useage in this area for summer work varies some, due to food source change to coyotes. I have some lure's that out perform others during the summer months for sure.
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Post by trappnman on Sept 4, 2004 12:57:48 GMT -6
yes, mid April is when pups should start appearing- 63 days.
What age were those females with an average of 7 pups?
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Post by psb1011 on Sept 4, 2004 16:06:04 GMT -6
Taking glands from foxes at times can be a pain,but you can learn some things doing so.Most fox around here,have little ones in them mid to late jan,but get just 1 or 2 that have pups in them in Dec.This past year for the first time had a female that had 7 little ones in her about the size of quaters mid November.You can also see the changes in the follopian tubes as the season gets later,and later.
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