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Post by ColdSteel on Aug 30, 2004 16:16:47 GMT -6
I have been using speed dip for years on my conibears and legholds and alot of trappers say that speed dip on canine traps is a no no.I really don't think there is a problem with it.What are your views?
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Post by trappnman on Aug 30, 2004 16:43:38 GMT -6
LOL- you just opened one of the many trapping can of worms....do dips cause problems with canines- es gas based dips.
My opinion is YES!!!!! That dipped traps, at leasti ncertain conditons- ie rainy, humid, hot...cause digging at the trap.
I have proved to myself- with test lines expressly to test the dips- in snow- that the dips do indeed cause some sort of odor and a digging reaction at the trap.
Now- some have just the opposite experience- they seem to have no problems at the set.
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Aug 30, 2004 17:59:29 GMT -6
WOW This will be a 50 post reply question for sure ;D. Yes in most cases you are handicapping your self with dips. I beleive ol' tman used to be an avid dip man, I think he has been converted by his post. If most people in most areas think there not missing some coyotes to dips I say there wrong! You look at the resistance in a sandy spot or better yet under snow conditions, those coyotes can/will peg a dipped trap out in a hurry. I don't know what it is with snow but all odors seem magnafied to a coyote! You can get by with more any other time of the year, but snow trapping and odor relation is a different story. I can't see why anyone would want to dip a trap in a paint based product cut with gasoline or white fuel and think that even airing it out a couple months, wouldn't lead to some detection by a coyote! The springs I feel are where alot of this odor stays strong, exspecially if they aren't as clean as a whistle inside. I use 20.00 turkey fryer sets up's to boil my traps, I have one for cleaning up traps, one for dyeing and one for waxing, works slick and fast. I can fit 14 sterlings in that long tall pot and leave them in for 15 mintues per batch I can do 56-58 sterlings etc an hour so if I have to do all my traps 2 hours and there all dyed up. As they come out by the time I'm done dying there dry enough to wax another hour and I'm done. So 3 hours and all traps are ready to roll. You may save half that dipping or a little better, but why? I tried speed dip when it first came out thought it to be the ticket, learned fast and have no need to ever go back to it.
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Post by ColdSteel on Aug 30, 2004 18:31:54 GMT -6
Coyote 35 what you say really does make alot of sence,I don't have many yotes in my area yet so I really can't give a good answer on them.But lets look at it this way do you wash your clothes in scent free detergent.do you smoke ,dip or chew tobacco,do you replace a trap that has blood on it or that has taken a non target animal.I just done all my traps and have stored them in rubbermaid containers full of pine straw.I hope this takes care of the fuel smell.Many more replies like yours and I may pull my traps back out and go to your method.LOL
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Aug 30, 2004 19:54:00 GMT -6
Do I chew yep, I try not to spit at the set but if I need to I do, blood on trap yep, I try and clean off as much as I can, but remember blood is a natural odor to a coyote. In the wrong place it will cause investigation, urine can/will cover up these types of smells and heck maybe they still smell it to some degree, but these are natural odors. In most not all areas gasoline, white gas is not natural, leaving a spooky coyote, they can't tell what ahuman is up to, they see it as unatural and that causes there brainreceptors to shy away spook from these odors. I have caught skunks, reset and flipped the skunk up the hill to come back to a coyote in the trap, loud odor? you bet but a natural loud odor, one that causes positive investigation, not negative like gas. Do as you wish, but I'll stick to good ol dye and wax.
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Post by redpig on Aug 30, 2004 21:07:26 GMT -6
I agree! I never will use speed dip on canines, especially coyotes. Any smell that is not natural to an area starts their little bells ringing and spells danger. A coyote can smell any item that has been introduced to a trap set, including iron, but iron exists in most areas, fencing,scrap metal,iron ore and does not cause alot of concern, but gas or white gas is a smell that few have ever been around, and it causes concern for the yotes. That is also the reason that I only boil traps in native vegetation that causes dying,and do not use commercial dyes. I believe a coyote can smell anything and everthing that goes into a set. I could be wrong...but its alot easier on me if I dont have any doubts on my methods.
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Post by Edge on Aug 30, 2004 21:55:12 GMT -6
**I just done all my traps and have stored them in rubbermaid containers full of pine straw.I hope this takes care of the fuel smell**
Get your traps outside in the wind now,they may be OK by season;I wouldnt use the stuff gaain on a dare.
Maybe its our humidity,maybe our limestone content;both recent thoughts,either way,it was a miserable failure here.
Edge
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Post by blakcoyote on Aug 30, 2004 23:41:08 GMT -6
I did once and never again.I had more digging than I have ever had.It seems they just wouldnt dry.I did them one june and they still smelled like gas in august.When trapping season rolled around they didnt seem to stink,but after being in the ground in damp whether they smelled again.And got dug up quite a bit.Maybe I did something wrong,maybe not,but I'll stick to my dye and wax.That was my worst year ever.If it aint broke dont fix it.
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Post by jim on Aug 31, 2004 6:02:56 GMT -6
I am not going to say speed dip is all right for k9 traps but isn't it strange some lure makers use exotic ingredients in their lures to attract these same k9 that are wary of unnatural smells. JIM
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Post by mike692 on Aug 31, 2004 6:12:49 GMT -6
I've tried dips on canine traps without much success. Like Edge, I believe our humidity is too high here. Besides, to me anyway, dyeing and waxing is just a part of the trapping experience. I would say if you're interested in dips, try them for yourself and make your own decision. Some guys swear by them.
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Post by TrappingAddict on Aug 31, 2004 6:37:45 GMT -6
How does that formula 1 dip work for the canines? It is water based. Has anyone tried it? Mike
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Post by trappnman on Aug 31, 2004 6:48:14 GMT -6
am not going to say speed dip is all right for k9 traps but isn't it strange some lure makers use exotic ingredients in their lures to attract these same k9 that are wary of unnatural smells.
Thing is- the coyote isn't spooked by the odor- he is intrigued by it- so he digs down to the trap. Once discovered as an uninteresting piece of metal- he ignores it and just like another guide, he avoids stepping o nit.
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Post by Timber on Aug 31, 2004 6:48:41 GMT -6
I have about a dozen cans of various dips in the garage that I got free at seminars and demos. I can't even bring myself to use them on my water traps. I tried once years ago and they never really dried. I did them in 90+ degree heat in june and by sept they were still slighty sticky. They were hung to air in a hay barn.
I just bought a couple dz. MB-650's that were dipped and had a HARD time cleaning the dip off. I dye and wax all my traps except coni-ooopps- I mean body grippers.
If you do decide to go the clean off the speed dip route-get another container for your wax as dipped traps can contaminate your trap wax. I use a seperate container for all previously dipped traps. They never truely come clean.
I have a buddy who dipped traps 2 years ago and not since, and I can still smell the fuel on them, so I know a coyote can. Will you catch coyotes in dipped traps? Probably some, but you will be handicapping yourself from the git- go and would be better off without it.
Tim
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Post by bblwi2 on Aug 31, 2004 8:26:48 GMT -6
Say yote can smell the fuel. I believe he can and will always be able to do so. They cross thousands of roads in WI everday with exhaust oder laying all over the road and the ditches after the rains. Many fields will have fuel oders where implements and tractors have been refueled etc. The question is what causes the yote to dig?
I am a limited canine trapper and one that has dipped traps the last 6 years. I have trapped mostly in December and used dry dirt carried in to the set. I have had what I feel to be limited refusals, but may not be recording those accurately.
question for trappnman and others. I agree the wet dirt and dipped traps and the order issue. If I start trapping say in early NOv in WI and set the first two lines before our normal freezzing weather, do you feel it best or essential to use bone dry dirt early in the year also to minimize odors? I also use a method of dry dirt and cliipped grass that works for me well on fox, less so on yotes. I used to use mostly dirtholes and flat sets when I did the lye dye and wax. I started to use this dry grass, dirt and modified mound system later in my December trapping and found that to be most successful with the dipped traps. Maybe it was the odor reduction with the dry trap be material all along. Any insights would be helpful. I will use whatever method of trap preperation that works the best for me with cost, time, funciton and success all being factors in the decision.
Bryce
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Post by trappnman on Aug 31, 2004 8:59:57 GMT -6
I prefer to use natural dirt if I can- I don't like "packing" dry dirt so only use it when I need to.
All I can comment on is my own experience- and that was I was getting a lot of digging in similar conditions to oyurs- early Nov. So- I made test lines using dry dirt, long dipped fresh traps (dipped in Sept, this was Jan) below freezing w/fresh snow every few nights- and the tracks in the snow showed me the truth- coyotes came right up to the set- with dry dirt being spread out in patterns of 10 feet or more- and dug at the trap under 2 inches of snow.
There isn't a doubt in my mind canines react adversely to the smell of dipped traps-
Yes, I caught plenty of coyotes in traps that were dipped over the years- including my personal best year...but...and this is a big but- I know I could have done better if not for the dipped traps. That was the year I started misting remakes more and more.
Concerning the smell of gas and oil on a farmland line.... I don't believe its the oil/gas per se that puts them off at the trap- and as pointed out, many coyotes don't appear to be alarmed at all- but the smell in an "unnatural location" combined with your odor, lures, etc that combines to make them curious at the trap. And I am not even saying that dips spook coyotes, cause I don't thing that is the case- but more of curiosity and then avoidance of the object (trap)
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Post by blakcoyote on Aug 31, 2004 9:01:52 GMT -6
bblwi2,I dont know if it's the fuel smell that causes them to dig or the dip odor that the fuel carries with it,or the fact that the smell is unatural being below clean dirt.Because most fuel is on top and goes down if spilled.I dont know.But the fact you have better luck in Dec. when the ground is froze,could be the fact that the gases in the fuel arent released as easily,keeping the odor down.Much like a closed gas can in the summer,it expands in the heat and contracts at night when it's cooler.The dry dirt your using probably helps keep the odor down,whereas damp ground when warmed up by the sun evaporates the moisture and rises at the same and carries odors up with it.You can see that on frosty mornings when the ground is steaming.But I think the main thing why it works for you in the winter is just because of the colder temps.
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Post by Edge on Aug 31, 2004 10:18:19 GMT -6
To sum up my response to the questions about making speed dip function with yotes,and this is only my opinion,but it would not occur to me to bother.Dye and wax is fast,efficient and bonifide;dip works someplaces for some people,for me it does not. I can catch yotes in dipped traps,rusty traps,under or over sized traps,poorly set traps and on and on,but the percentages are better on waxed traps for me;even if I dont *HAVE*to catch every yote;I still want a shot at them;and in my experience,speed dip dont cut it.
Edge
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Post by ColdSteel on Aug 31, 2004 10:21:19 GMT -6
Well it looks like speed dip is not the way to go>I haven't got many yotes in my area but I just had a good year on fox.Maybe a fox is alot dumber than a yote.I still feel like that if a animal comes in and digs up a trap it can be caught.What caused this animal to dig speed dip,blood on trap rusty traps improper beeding who knows>Maybe I should leave the speed dip alone,but I do not have a problem with dug up traps.I have had a problem when the fox would come in and not work the set,and then the next day come to the trap and have a foxso who knows I guess this boils down to a fox is alot dumber than a yote
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Post by trappnman on Aug 31, 2004 10:28:35 GMT -6
this boils down to a fox is alot dumber than a yote
I don't know if it boils down to that or not- but they are easier to catch.
I say this based on the word of trappers that take 100s of fox a year and on my own limited experience with fox. I find that if fox are present- I usually take them the first night or 2 on the farm-
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Post by jim on Aug 31, 2004 19:21:26 GMT -6
Made my post early this am, been gone most of the day and rereading tc35 says they shy away from this strange odor, trapperman says they are intrigued by it and dig at the trap. Maybe we should put a squirt of gas down the hole. If I get my lure test done this Sept I will have to make extra holes for the gas and the Frenchs mustard test. Jim
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