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Post by TDunn on Aug 18, 2004 18:56:56 GMT -6
Was out walking early yesterday and came across a coyote. It was about 175 yards away, walking across a sandpit. I stopped and it stopped, looking at each other. Didn't seem to give a rats pitute about me, it just sauntered along its way. Even at that distance, I could see it was a good size 'yote. Which got me to wondering about how much difference there is in the average size of eastern coyotes as opposed to coyotes from way out west?
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Post by 17HMR on Aug 18, 2004 19:21:34 GMT -6
Here in Nebraska the biggest one I have come across was just short of 60# that was 20 years ago when I was skinning for the buyer. Jeff
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Post by Planes & Poison on Aug 18, 2004 19:32:18 GMT -6
I average around 30lbs, a few pounds higher average at the higher elevations.
Anything bigger than that is pretty unusual.
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Post by dj88ryr on Aug 18, 2004 19:35:31 GMT -6
There are some pretty big dogs here and there was in NH as well. I have seen 50 lber here, and have caught them that big back home.
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Post by NEPISIGUIT on Aug 18, 2004 20:04:45 GMT -6
Have some really big dogs here in eastern Canada.We have quite a few trappers who have been able to lower their numbers. some of those left are very large and educated. 50 plus# heard of one that was supposed to go 71# last year. not confirmed
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Post by bubcat on Aug 18, 2004 20:53:50 GMT -6
In NH most all the adult males run between 42 and 48 lbs. over 50 lbs is not uncommon.
Females seem to avg about 6 or 7 lbs less.
They are often close to the same size as males, just a little lighter framed.
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Post by trappnman on Aug 19, 2004 7:19:22 GMT -6
In 2002, I weighed lot of my coyotes for the dnr. They ranged from the lower 20s to the upper 30s. Average was around 28 lbs.
A "big" one here will be in the 50s- but they are rare, rare, rare.
Catching a 40 lb coon here is more commmon than a 50 lb coyote.
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Post by Zagman on Aug 19, 2004 8:17:18 GMT -6
Started weighing my coyotes for my own interest and information....
Found out a lot of my "50 lb" coyotes weighed closer to 42 lbs!
Most pups of the year weighed 19-25 lbs, with 19 being a real exception.
Most sub-adults (not official term, just what I called them, but they are what I figured were 1-2 years old) weighed 30-35 lbs.
And the bigger, older, melon-headed "alpha's" weighed 42-52 lbs, with the males being on the high end of that scale.
Have had a couple 58 pounders, a couple over 60#, and my personal best, confirmed on a non-certified scale, was 68#. And he was missing a burdock-filled tail, so he might have broken 70# with all his parts LOL.
The bottom line, I have never caught one of the elusive 75-90 lb coyotes that all the deer hunters around here shoot!
Coincidence?
Basically, I expect full grown coyotes around here to average 40 lbs, give or take.
Zags
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Post by trappnman on Aug 19, 2004 9:03:43 GMT -6
I'd say the average weight of a fully grown 3+ year old would be 30-35 for females and 35-40 for males.
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Post by dj88ryr on Aug 19, 2004 9:15:27 GMT -6
I'd say the average weight of a fully grown 3+ year old would be 30-35 for females and 35-40 for males. Guess you are catching too many gophers and they are going hungry ;D
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Post by mattjones298 on Aug 19, 2004 13:43:41 GMT -6
zagman has the same coyote size as i do. we catch afew big males in the high 40`s and low fiftys every year. most in the 30`s...pups in the low 20`s just guessing. i have never seen a 60 lb coyote or a 30 lb coon. 25 lb is a huge coon here. i`ve seen 2 out of thousands
matt
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Post by dj88ryr on Aug 19, 2004 14:42:37 GMT -6
Here is a pic that Zags sent me to post. His preferred caption was..." This is what a 58lber. looks like.
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Post by z on Aug 19, 2004 17:32:21 GMT -6
To bad it wasn't black.......
Zz!
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Post by vttrapper on Aug 19, 2004 18:39:54 GMT -6
Same as Zagger except my biggest was 61 or 62 lbs.
frank
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Post by Zagman on Aug 20, 2004 6:36:27 GMT -6
Z:
Nope he wasn't black.....but:
He was 18 years old.....gummed his food. Couldn't even chew Powder River Paste Bait....had to feed it to him with a baby spoon.....
He was wearing two snares.....one had a Minnesota trap tag on it....a real traveler......
When I skun him, which took 3 hours, he had two chunks of lead under his hide.....
He was pegged on the right front foot and left rear.....gnarly.....
And Kickbacks? My four-wheeler got stuck in one of the kickbacks he made before committing himself....
And even though he was a male, he was wet, and on his way back to the den, after killing lambs.....'
Was worried about the trap working....thank goodness for my mixture of peat/wax dirt/chicken poop/chloride and urea.....
Locals called him "Lobo"....
But, he wasn't black........
;)Zagman
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Post by trappnman on Aug 20, 2004 6:51:29 GMT -6
LMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I needed a good laugh- that did it!
those wet males are the worse...they see things from two perspectives..
So Zags- rereading oyur post, you state this-
Most pups of the year weighed 19-25 lbs, with 19 being a real exception.
Most sub-adults (not official term, just what I called them, but they are what I figured were 1-2 years old) weighed 30-35 lbs.
And the bigger, older, melon-headed "alpha's" weighed 42-52 lbs, with the males being on the high end of that scale.
Here is what I have in my area- using your same terms:
[Most pups of the year weighed 19-25 lbs, with 19 being a real exception.
Most sub-adults (not official term, just what I called them, but they are what I figured were 1-2 years old) weighed 30-35 lbs.
And the bigger, older, melon-headed "alpha's" weighed 42-52 lbs, with the males being on the high end of that scale.
LOL- odd isn't it. But re-reading your post made me think about this- and darn it, what you descibe matches my weighed coyotes pretty much on the nut.
Up until about 3- your coyotes and my coyotes are about the same averages.
And we do have them here in the upper 40s, lower 50s.
Just not near as many......
But- this might explain it- or at least make you ponder a little......
Our collaring study showed, as I have related before, a rapid turnover in this area in mortality. Almost a 100% turnover of population in less than 3 years. So.....we don't HAVE many of those 3+ year cooytes out there.
Can it be this simple......
Comments...?
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Post by Zagman on Aug 20, 2004 7:37:45 GMT -6
As Z has pointed out, we have an unusual percentage of old coyotes here!
Nah, joking.
Not sure, but I am curious, as to what is killing your coyotes before or when they hit 3 years old.....
I am not a coyote aging expert.....the tooth chart I have is hard to use, at best.
I am often wrong, based on body size compared to what their teeth end up showing.....
I could be wrong, and maybe our 2-3 year old coyotes are actually the alphas, and the one-year olds are the "sub-adults", and our coyotes are dead by 3 years old as well.
As a percentage, I would say 20% of the coyotes I catch, give or take, are melon heads. Which seems high, but since I have been weighing them, that's the case.
Perhaps some of the "sub-adults" I catch are actually big 6-9 month pups....
I would sense that, overall, our coyote body size here would be larger than yours......not sure why, I guess it's just because of the mish-mash of DNA/stuff they have proven has been thrown into the pot to produce our eastern brush wolves.....
So, while my weights may be accurate, I am not 100% sure on the age groups/classes......
Zags
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Post by trappnman on Aug 20, 2004 7:56:14 GMT -6
The mortality surprized us all- and there was no real single cause. Very few natural deaths..
Remember, we were dealing with small numbers, and it is a leap to assume the whole population is the same- but there is a trend, thats for sure. Pattern was -get all the collars on in the fall- replace 4-6 of the original 10 in the spring, replace 3-4 of them in the summer, replace 4-6 in the fall- and this pattern continue for 4 years.
Mortality was from deer hunters, other hunters, farmers, cars, a few winter coyote hunters and a few trapping.
And the size and shape confused us big time. Ben and I didn't weigh them, but inspected their general health, too measurements- length, neck size, girth size and determined, simply on our best judgement, if they were adults (18 months up) or young of the year. Many of them were labeled as adults. But when the were posted later that year when recovered- very few were actually adults- most of them were yoy.
Perhaps your population is younger than you think. I too have the tooth chart and find it difficult at best to use.
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Post by Hornhunter on Aug 20, 2004 7:58:02 GMT -6
Maine rcorded weight Is 63lbs i believe. In one of the reports about coyote/wolf dna. they talk about some in the 80lb. class??. I've read that New York had some in the 80lb class. A story In the Fur Harvester that Gibb sent (Fall/winter03-04)tells how the Algonquin wolf( Related to the red wolf) may have migrated out of the Algonquin Provincial park. Also tells how you cant tell any difference between wolf hides from Ontario, Maine, New York, New Brunswick, Manitoba or the northwest territories.
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Post by Zagman on Aug 20, 2004 8:43:22 GMT -6
HH: your are correct, and it is not a coincidence, therefore, that we have such of a high percentage of those ugly, red, $12.00 coyotes in our bags.
But, if you tan them and sell them, they are the first to be taken......
I like all coyotes, but I like the red one's less than I like others....
Not sure how I would feel about a red coyote with mange.
Zags
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